N is for Nergal

Nergal comes to us from Mesopotamian mythology, the same that gives us Pazuzu, Tiamat and Lilith (after a fashion).  He is an old god of the noon day sun, war, pestilence, disease and the planet Mars.  It could be said that he even symbolizes the worst aspects of the god that would later go on to become Ares/Mars.
Like most old gods he was later demonized by Christian authors.  He even appears in the Hebrew and Christian bibles as one of the few named demons (2 Kings, 17:30).
Christians would equate him with the Devil.  Earlier Zoroastrianism would connect him with the Angra Mainyu, or their evil spirit.

In many of the myths/stories of Nergal he is the lord of underworld, but not the sole lord.  It is a task he shares with his lover Ereshkigal, or as I like to call her, the world's first Goth chick. Depending on the story Nergal either rapes Ereshkigal, she tricks him into staying in the underworld or they have a loving relationship.  All could be true.

In various games Nergal usually gets demoted. In AD&D 1st ed and D&D 3rd ed he gets only a mention as being one of the Rabble of Devilkin.  Again this is unfortunate since it lacks a lot of what Nergal interesting.  He gets a much better writeup in the 1st Ed Deities & Demigods and his girl friend is central to many adventures and games.  I used her in my Army of Darkness/D&D mash up and again in my current 1st ed game with my kids.

Nergal

Alignment: Neutral Evil
Movement: 120'
Armor Class: -3
Hit Points (Hit Dice): 110 hp (19 HD)
Attacks: Rod (x2)
Damage: 1d8/1d8 +save vs. death on critical hit
Special: +1 or better weapon to hit, command undead, immunity to fire, electricity and poison, regeneration (1 hp/round), see in darkness, magic resistance (55%), telepathy 150 ft.
Save: F19
MORALE: 11
XP: 13,000


Nergal is the Lord of the Underworld.  While his origin is more closely aligned to the Baalseraph, he is closer in nature to a Demondand or Shedim.  He is a demon that had been a god, but was killed and returned.  He shares this quality with a number of other demon lords including Orcus.
He appears as a tall, older man with thick black hair and beard.  He stands 7' tall, but can appear taller.He wears clothing fitting a king of his time (ancient Babylon) and carries a long rod that he uses in combat.
Like most kings he prefers to stay out of combat himself.  Instead he can summon up to 4 dead enemies from a person's past to fight on his behalf.
He can also command any undead as if he were a 19th level evil cleric.
When angered his countenance changes to that of a lion with a long black mane and skin pocked as if with disease.
Nergal prefers to stay out mortal affairs except in times of war.  Other powerful demon lords (typically Shedim and Baalseraph) employ him as a general or war marshall for their wars against each other.
While Nergal has lost much of his former power he still considers himself a god and not a demon.

Links
http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/gods/lords/undernergal.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nergal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ereshkigal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nergal_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Nergal_(deity)
http://zyntara.com/VisualAstrologyNewsletters/van_April2006/VAN_april2006.htm

E is for Eodemon

Eodemons are another "new" race of demons I am working on.  Eodemons are the "Dawn Demons" or Proto Demons.  These are the demons that were already old and evil and sulking in the Hells.  Unlike the "devils" that were once good and then fell or "demons" that are relatively new to the scene, the Protodemons were old and evil. Their motivations are often alien to mortals and other demons.  Their numbers are few, but each one is extremely powerful.  Many are worshiped as gods, or at least, dark gods.

These are not to be confused with the Eudaemons, or beneficial demons.  Also many believe that Lilith herself is an Eodemon, but this is something she denies.  Also some scholars use the more archaic form Eolim to describe these demons.  Not to be confused with Elohim, which are also servants of Good.

For my take on these demons I am taking really, really old myths.  The one that everyone knows is Pazuzu.
How do you know him?  He was the demon in The Exorcist.

Only five Eodemons are being detailed. There maybe more, but they have thankfully remained unknown.  As a group they are more powerful than the Baalseraph, but are too independent and chaotic to work to the same ends.

While I am connecting the Baalserasph Lords with the Deadly Sins, I see the Eodemons as representing a classical element.

Dagon: Lord of the depths. This Eodemon combines the worst aspects of fish, octopi, sharks and strangely mankind.  Like most Eodemons his form constantly shifts and rearranges itself to suit his need, environment or whim.  One constant is his large, dead looking eyes. Always described as the “eyes of a fish” or a “drowned man”.
His element is Water.

Leviathan: It is supposed that this is the oldest of all the Eodemons.  Leviathan is so ancient that even other demons seem in awe of “his” age and power.  It assumed that it is a he though there is no evidence to suggest either way. Leviathan exists only for one purpose; to feed.  Leviathan can be found in the Astral realms devouring entire worlds.
"He" represents the Fifth Element of Quintessence.

Pazuzu: The Lord of the East Wind is a demon of the skies. He appears to be a well proportioned athletic male human with bronzed skin. His head is a bizarre combination of human, dragon and hawk.  His double set of wings could indicate a semi-divine nature but Lord Pazuzu denies such things.  Lord Pazuzu says a lot actually, he is the most active Eodemon in the affairs of mortals.
He represents the element Air.

Tiamat: The Queen of Monsters and Primal Chaos.  Tiamat was once a primal goddess of creation. But she desired only to destroy.  She was cast out and was already old in the hells when the Baalseraph arrived.  Evil Dragons and evil monsters still revere her as their queen and goddess.
She represents the element Water.

Tsathogga: This great demon appears as some sort of titanic frog-like monster.  It appears to be at least 50’ long or as much as 75’. There is a vague humanness about this this demon, but it’s countenance is one of an evil frog. It’s mouth is filled with rows of sharp, shark-like teeth the length of a grown man’s  arm.  It’s body is covered in open sores where oozes pour out.   Tsathogga does not bother to attack mere humans and will summon 4-9 (1d6+3) Demodands loyal only to him. Tsathogga, when he does attack, will use his tongue to attack the nearest opponent.  Human cultists worship Tsathogga, but the Demon Lord cares little for humanity.
The Lord of Toads represents the element Earth (I know, not a great fit).

So a nice collection of different myths here.

Reviews: Dragon Island and Magic

A few new products I picked up at the GM's Day Sale at DriveThruRPG.

My boys are getting ready for their huge campaign finale.  The giant battle against Tiamat on the Island of the Dragon Empire.  Back in the dawn of time the Dragon and their Dragonfolk surrogates ruled the world from the Dragon Island.  Those days are gone and the Dragon Empire has fallen.  But the Island remains and that is where the characters will make their stand.

Fantastic Maps - Iconic Island
I am gearing up for the BIG finale of my years long 3e game.  The final battle where the forces of good battle the forces of evil happens on an Iceland-like island in my world.  I could have drawn anything, I could have even taken an older module and altered the island in Photoshop.  With this product I didn't have too.  It even looks almost EXACTLY like what I wanted.  The ZIP file contains maps of the island. Non-marked, marked and hexed variants. Plus a BW version.  There is no text or fluff to go with this, which is great, I have my own.  This is my new Dragon Isle!  I would love to see more products like this one.

My new island is going to need people too.

Archetypes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG)
I got this product for the new witch hexes but the rest of it is great as well.  There is a cool Eastern Flavor to this and I want to see if there is more in this series.  While I have a lot of cultures on my game world the one thing that has been getting the short end of my attentions are Dragonfolk/Dragonborn.  This book, while not explicitly designed for that, is perfect for my needs (and the cover kinda helps with that).
So what do we get? 20 pages (with cover, credits page, OGL statement and 2 pages of "Ads").  While there is an Eastern "flavor" to this, it is presented mostly context free.
The Barbarian is based on totem animals, which is a really awesome variant.  I normally don't play barbarians, but I would try one of these.  The Cavaliers are the Order of the Ancestors and Order of the Creed.  Monks, a natural fit, are presented as Kensai (one of my favorite classes back in the day). Imagine the typical unarmed monk, now armed.  And finally, the Witch, with a bunch of new and exciting hexes based on Elemental magics or Dragon magic (see it is a perfect fit!!). In fact these are some of the best Dragon Witches I have ever seen.  So this is worth the price of the book alone to me.
We also get plenty of new feats.  This was a nice surprise and I am very happy with this.

Midgard: Player's Guide to the Dragon Empire
I own a few of the Midgard products, but this one really called to me.  This Dragon Empire is very similar to the one I was crafting for my own game world, so this saves me some heavy lifting.
The 30 pages of this book is jam-packed.  What did I like in this?
Well I love the castes.  Dragons seem very arrogant and a caste system makes sense. I liked how the castes were set up as well.  Lots of great role-playing potential in these.  We get a bunch of new Traits and Feats.
Classes get a bit of an update as to be expected.  There is a Cavalier archetype, the Order of the Firedrake (which is a PERFECT with my world's own White Drakes). The Druids have the Elemental Exarch. Fighters get Edjet Warriors, and the Magus has the Dragon Magus.  We get a couple new monks, Monk of the Fiery Fist and Monk of the Wind Palm. There is also the Mystery of the Void, Greyscale and Void Elemeentalist for the Oracle, Rouge and Elementalists respectively.  There is also the Dragon Emir prestige class which I am sure my son would love. The book end with new spells, exotic goods and magic items, including magic the magic carpet.  Cool stuff.  I am going to have to look for more books in this series.

Midgard Bestiary for Pathfinder RPG
We always need more monsters. Over a 100 new monsters for Pathfinder.  Lots of really interesting ones too.  I loved the Shadow Fae, Ice Maiden and Red Hag and have hooks already for all of them.  The new dragon types are also very interesting and I can't wait to use a Mithril Dragon or Baby Yaga's Horsemen. In fact there are two completely separate campaigns I want to use this book in, a Dragon based one and a Witch-centric one.  Both need unique monsters that the players have never seen before, and there are a number of monsters here that are perfect for one or the other or both!
Also available for 4e and AGE.

Lineage Draconis
This 28 page (27 + cover) pdf features 6 dragon crossbreads including the oft stated Orange and Yellow Dragons. But you also get the Blade, Steel, Rust and Gray Dragons.  These dragons are pretty interesting and for the game I have coming up I need a lot of interesting dragons.  The book also includes the Dragon Blooded "class" though it is also sort of a race.  They are humanoid dragons.  Plenty of things you can do with this class as well as alternate versions depending one where the blood came from.
In a neat little feature you also get the art from the book in a seperate file.  So now you can show your players exactly what a Yellow Dragon looks like.

The Modern Spellcaster Basic Class
This book is for the d20 Modern Game, Pathfinder and a few other d20 based games.   It presents a generic form of a spellcaster that isn't a wizard, cleric, witch or druid.  In a sense it is a throwback to the older "Magic User" class.  The basic premise here is to provide full powered (up to spell level 9) spellcasters from D&D like games to your Modern Games.  I am not sure how this works out in play, but the concept on it's own is interesting enough.  There are new feats and a fun "arcane death" table.  Frankly I would like to see that expanded into an "Arcane CSI" to be used in any modern game with magical elements.

Dragonfolk for the Advanced Era

Like his dad, my oldest son enjoys all versions of D&D.  He plays a 3e game with me and his brother, a 4e game with some friends and a Pathfinder game with some other friends.   He has also had the chance to play Castles & Crusades, ACKS and Basic Era D&D.  But so far his favorite has to be 1st Ed AD&D.

He also loves dragons.  Always has.  So it was a natural then that he would want to make his own dragon book and have some going back and forth we decided that an OSRIC or Labyrinth Lord Advanced compatible book would be the best.

Of course in what can only be called a bit of Generational Rebellion, according to my son there are no know Dragonfolk witches. 

So for your enjoyment here is a new player character race he has been working on for some time. 

The Dragonfolk.

All text below is considered OPEN for the Open Gaming License. It is copyright 2012 Liam and Timothy Brannan.

Dragonfolk

It is well known that dragons can often take the guise of humans, elves or other humanoid species.  It has been through this magic that the dragons have come into direct contact and congress with these younger species.  For years these various dragon-blooded and half-dragons roamed the world often ignorant of their own heritages.  It was not till the great hero Marduk, himself rumored to be the spawn of a human mother and Ea the Dawn Dragon, gathered all the dragon blooded to one one land now known as the Dragon Isles. He then became their first King.

Thousands of years later the Dragon Empires have waned, but the Dragonfolk have survived as a species in their own right.  They rarely leave their Dragon Isles and are thus rare or even legend in other parts of the world.

There are two type of Dragonfolk recognized, Imperial and non-Imperial.  Imperial Dragonfolk hale from the Isles of the Dragon Empire.  The Empire has waned in the 700+ generations since Marduk first united the Dragonfolk into a single people, but the Imperial Dragonfolk are still just as proud as they ever were.

Non-Imperial Dragonfolk are born from the union of a humanoid (typically human, elf or dwarf) and a dragon.  They are of the same general sort of their humanoid parent with the scales, coloration and temperament of their dragon parent.  Non-Imperial Dragonfolk are often shunned in human committees. Any non-Imperial Dragonfolk can claim to be an Imperial Dragonfolk only if they make a pilgrimage to the Temple of Dragons on the Dragon Isle and there renounce their ties to their humanoid relatives.

Description
Dragonfolk appear as dragonlike humanoids.  They share qualities with both of their parent stock.  They stand taller than humans typically 6 to 7 feet in height with males and females being roughly the same height.  They are warm blooded despite their reptilian appearance, though they are not as comfortable in extreme climates as are humans.   Dragonfolk lay eggs like dragons, but also produce milk like a mammal.  Typically only 1 to 2 eggs are laid in a clutch.  The eggs develop partially inside the female and then are kept warm by the male and female once laid.  Twins resulting from one egg is considered an ill omen.

Imperial Dragonfolk can claim human, elf, dwarf as well as a variety of draconic parentage.  Imperial Dragonfolk are only fertile with other Dragonfolk. Non-Imperial are fertile with other Dragon-folk and their members of their humanoid parent's race (and races cross fertile with them such as orcs, trolls, goblins).

Dragonfolk can come from any combination of dragon and humanoid parentage.  For Imperial Dragonfolk, ones that live or come from the Dragon Isles, this is not determination of potential alignment or powers. For non-Imperial Dragonfolk parentage can have an affect on coloration, powers and potential alignment.  

Dragonfolk only recognize the difference between Imperial and non-Imperial Dragonfolk, with Imperial Dragonfolk claiming superiority to the non-Imperial individuals.  Non-Imperial Dragonfolk can produce offspring with strong Dragonfolk traits. These straits remain strong even through many generations.

There is some questionable scholarly work claiming that Kobolds are non-Imperial crosses with gnomes or halflings.  While is this largely dismissed even the most conservative scholars do believe that Kobolds may be the result of non-Imperial pairings of dragons and goblins.

Dragonfolk develop from egg to hatchling in 6 months and are weaned after 6 months. They reach maturity at 13 years.  Imperial Dragonfolk are considered Citizens at 21 years of age.  Their average lifespan is 250 years.  A mated pair will usually mate first between 14 and 21 years old and they will stay together for life, though they may not not necessarily live with each other.

Honor and Caste
Dargonfolk have a strict code of honor. This and the Dragonfolk caste system will be detailed in the future.

Requirements: CON 9

Ability Modifiers: STR +1, CHA +1, DEX -1

Ability Min/Max: STR 4/19, DEX 2/17, CON 9/18, INT 3/18, WIS 3/18, CHA 4/19

Languages: Dragonfolk learn Draconic as their primary Language and can learn the common tongue and alignment language.  They may learn additional languages to these based on their Intelligence score. If Kobolds have a unique language then Dragonfolk will also know this language. 

Infravision: 30 ft

Low-light vision: 120ft

Naturally Dragonfolk are a highly magical race. They gain a +2 to all saves from Spells and Spell like devices.  The gain a +4 vs Dragon Breath saves.  

They can see Invisible creatures and items on a 1 on a 1d6.  They can find secret doors on a 1-2 on a 1d6 as well. 

Dragonfolk are naturally resistant to weapons due to their tough, scaly hides. They gain an additional -1 to their Armor Class. 

Permitted class options: Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Magic-User*, Thief, Cleric/Fighter, Cleric/Paladin,  Fighter/Magic-User, Fighter/Thief.

Level Limits

Cleric: 9th 

Fighter: Unlimited

Paladin: 17th

Magic-User*: 11th

Thief: 8th

Dragonfolk have their own type of magic-user known as Dragon Mages.  These will detailed later.

Dragonfolk Thief Skill Adjustments

Pick Locks -5%

Find and Remove Traps +5%

Climb Walls -15%

Movement Rate: 120 ft

Breath Weapon

A holdover from their draconic heritage, Dragonfolk have a limited breath weapon.  Regardless of their coloration or alignment the individual Dragonfolk can choose among Acid, Cold, Gas, Electricity,  or Fire.  

Once per day a Dragonfolk can emit a powerful breath weapon attack.  This attack does 1d6 + 1hp/level damage. The damage type is chosen at character creation and can't be changed short of a Wish spell.

Dragonfolk and Kobolds

Dragonfolk and Kobolds share a relationship similar to that of Humans and Halflings or Dwarves and Gnomes. In areas where Dragonfolk are more common Kobolds will live on the outskirts of the Dragonfolk communities.  Kobolds will adjust their normal behaviors and alignments to suit that of their Dragonfolk cousins.  Indeed small communities of kobolds near good aligned Dragonfolk areas have been known to be good aligned as well.  

Religion
Dragonfolk follow a form of Ancestor worship where they honor the spirits of fallen warriors, kings and dragons.  They claim that many of the dragon "gods" that cultures around the world worship were in fact personages in their history.  Many times these gods were non-Imperial Dragonfolk that rose to great power and honor.   Such dragons and Dragonfolk are Aži Dahāka (The Destroyer), Druk (thunder dragon), Ea (Dawn Dragon), Jawzahr (Moon Dragon), Karkeu (Diamond Dragon), Marduk (Dragonfolk Hero and Emperor), Quetzalcoatl (Dragonfolk Lord of the Sky), Tiamat (Mother of Monsters), Yam (Son of Ea and Tiamat, dragon god of the Sea), Zirnitra (Dragon God of Sorcerery), and Zmey Gorynych (Darkness).

Section 15.

OSRIC. Copyright 2008 Stuart Marshall.

Advanced Edition Companion, Copyright 2009-2010, Daniel Proctor. Author Daniel Proctor.

"Dragonfolk for the Advanced Era" Copyright 2012, Timothy & Liam Brannan.

Tiamat/Takhis research

Anyone have anything on Tiamat or Takhisis for D&D?

I need to go beyond the normal web-crawl/wikipedial-trawl and get some deep, hard research.

Something beyond this post I made in the summer.
http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2012/06/tiamat-on-my-mind.html

Thanks all!

Tiamat on my Mind

Been doing some research on the end game of my kids D&D 3.x game and I have been thinking a lot about Tiamat.  The kids are going to fight her in the end, but I wanted something more than the big five-head dragon of the AD&D Monster Manual, and not exactly like the Takhisis of Dragonlance.

So I hit the "books".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takhisis
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tiamat (for the Forgotten Realms info)
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/tiamat.html

And inspirational posts:
http://gorgonmilk.blogspot.com/2012/01/tiamat.html
http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2012/05/percentile-systems-girl-voices-and.html
http://blackmoormystara.blogspot.com/2011/09/divinity-of-dragons.html


http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2010/03/drow-should-be-lawful-evil-among-other.html
http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2010/01/going-up-to-hell-cosmology.html
http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2011/05/post-666.html
http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2010/11/sohave-you-ever-killed-god.html


Well I also hit the real books too.

One thing I recall thinking up years ago was that Tiamat in the old myths was the personification of Chaos.  This idea was reaffirmed with me when I, like many others, dabbled in Chaos Math and Science (it was the 90s, all the cool grad students were doing it).   Tiamat is primordial chaos.   Well what is that in D&D?  Simple, the Abyss.  So I have placed Tiamat in the Abyss, but it is not-quite-the-Abyss.  Her realm is Tehom, the Hebrew word for abyss or deep.  It is also related to the Kabbalah, being one of the Qliphoth.  Tiamat and Tehom also are have etymological relations.

Zak even talks a bit about fighting Tiamat and the mytho-historical Tiamat near the end of his interview over at Penny Red. (1:20:00 or around there).

Tiamat and Lolth
In my games Tiamat and Lolth are strong allies (no, not like this). Mostly because I have effectively had them swap places; Lolth becoming LE and in Hell, Tiamat CE and in the Abyss.  But also because they have similar backstories.  Both were (are) gods. Both were cast out by male Gods to establish some new order.  I can see each seeing something of herself in the other, and not in a self-loathing way (Lolth in my world is full of self-loathing, no pun intended) but rather as solidarity.  Their views are radically different, but their plans for conquest do not conflict really.  So they see each other as an ally.  Not best friends or anything like that, but there is mutual trust built up over centuries.  They are evil, not stupid.   If I were to play this out then I would have an alliance between the Drow and a group of dragons.  Most likely the red dragons, like what the Githyanki do.  I might even revise that a bit and say it was a select group Drow that went to serve Tiamat and she in return had some dragons serve Lolth.  Of course they are spies, but everyone knows this.

Here is an odd entry, attributed to the Demonomicon that Lolth is the offspring of Tiamat and Alrunes, the Queen of Sorcery.   Not quite sure about that one really.  But I have conjectured that Orcus is the offspring of Tiamat.  That would give me a hook too.

Of course I had this evil thought of using  the Scales of War material for the last few adventures.

Just a little late night research.

Anything cool about Tiamat or Lolth I should know?

Dragonslayers: An Epic Epic of Epicness

So after my Book of Vile Darkness enhanced version of S4:The Lost Caverns of the Tsojcanth, the characters all for the most part hit 20th level and frankly I don't want to stop.

So I am pouring over the Epic Level Handbook now.  This is not something I used back when I was play 3.x, and it has taken this long for the boys to get to this level.  I have some issues with it, for example the editing seems bad in places. But man this book is just full of great ideas.  Some of which would be great for Epic Level Play in D&D4 or 20+ level in D&D Bacic/BECMI.
Really it is kind of a fascinating book.  It takes the rules into places the original designers I don't think expected, but yet there is such an enthusiasm for it that it makes the reality of a 30-level D&D4 a no brainer.

They have not leveled up yet, they are still in the caves.  I am merging the 3.x rewrite of the LSotT with the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdûn.  I now have the temple far, far underground where the dengerate Norkers dwell and keep millennia old rituals alive to a God no one remembers.  There will be demons, monsters of pure chaos and all sorts of evil.  Maybe even a rogue Brain Collector.  Love those guys.

To keep the sense of evil, dread and most importantly fear, I am still going to use the Book of Vile Darkness (both the 3.0 and 4.0 versions) but I'll also include some elder scariness from the Epic Level Handbook too.

The idea here is to build to something big, apocalyptic even.  That is why I bought this thing.

The Mage Knight Apocalypse Dragon to stand in for the full Goddess form of Tiamat.  That is the 3.x era Aspect of Tiamat and the 4e Orcus.   I am not sure how powerful she is going to be, but I am expecting HP in the low 1000 area, at least 30-35 HD and enough magic the stomp a small city-state.  I want it to be so epic that the boys will tell their own kids one day.  Just like the time that my characters had to defeat Orcus in the original H4 Throne of Bloodstone back in that far off time of 1987 and that mystical land sages once spoke of, Southern Illinois.

But since I also want to make all the battles leading up to this one epic in feel I am also reading other's play experience with these two modules.

Beedo over at Dreams of the Lich House has a great post on his group's battle in the Temple of Tharizdun.  This is a great run down and shows that all in not quiet in this so-called Forgotten temple.  James of Grognardia gives us his retrospective as well.  What both bloggers offer me is something I already knew, but was glad to see it all spelled out again.  The Forgotten Temple is not a simple dungeon crawl. Sure it looks like one, but it isn't one. This is alien horror.  This is Lovecraft meets the Satan Pit.
There is no over ridding goal to this adventure.  This is uncovering a plot and then running the hell away. I'll give them chances to acquire some magic items, even face some ancient, eldritch evils.

If I ever do Tharizdûn it will have to be even bigger than the Tiamat battle.


Tharizdun. Now there is name.  You don't need to know anything else about this guy other than his name to know he is up to no good.

In Gygax's Oerth he is the next best (worst) thing to Satan.  He is the Source of All Evil, to borrow a page from Charmed.  He is the biggest baddie there is.  I'll take his "Satan" aspects and his "Thasaidon" aspects and maybe even pepper in a bit of Lovecraft for good measure.

Links I am currently reading for "inspiration".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forgotten_Temple_of_Tharizdun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharizdun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Ashton_Smith_deities#Thasaidon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaunadaur#Ghaunadaur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Evils
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tharizdun
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tharizdun
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elder_Elemental_Eye
http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=968
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/11/retrospective-forgotten-temple-of.html
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/08/pulp-fantasy-library-dark-eidolon.html
http://ulmo.mux.net/greyhawk/tharizdun.html

Anyone else run an Epic level game?  Or take on the Temple of Tharizdun.

The Dragonslayers vs. The Lost Caverns of the Tsojcanth, Finale

Last night the Dragonslayers (aka my kids) finished up the Greater Caverns to discover Iggwilv's greatest treasure and fight Drelnza.  I was considering to bring her back, but she was so completely destroyed that I just can't imagine how she would do it.

The boys did great really, I am very pleased how they played.  I was amazed how well my youngest did.  He figured out the secret of the central doors really fast and had a really good sense of direction.  We used minis of course, but not for the entire dungeon, just the battles.  They got the Lanthorn, the Prison, and all her books of magic.  Everyone leveled up one level.

Of course the boys had a  great time and we even got to play past bedtime. They woke up today and wanted to get right back into it.  That is the sign of a good adventure.

Now I need to figure out what the guys are going to do next.  I'd love to move on to the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, but I am anxious to get them to the big battle against Tiamat.

For that I am considering using the old H4 Throne of Bloodstone, but not sure yet.

Here are the previous posts in this series.

• http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2010/11/getting-back-in-to-it.html
• http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2011/06/dragonslayers-vs-lost-caverns-of.html
• http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2011/07/dragonslayers-vs-lost-caverns-of.html
• http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2011/12/return-of-dragonslayers.html
• http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2012/01/dragonslayers-and-books-of-vile.html

Tomorrow. Something special!

The Dragonslayers and the Books of Vile Darkness

The Dragonslayers are currently wandering around the Greater Caverns of Iggwilv's lair (The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth).

They have been sent to recover the rumored "Golden Treasure of Iggwilv" which of course is Drelzna.  I am of course keeping all the treasure (Demonomicon, the 6 books, Prison and Lanthorn) but I am also throwing in a copy of the Book of Vile Drakness.

I have been using the 3.0 version to expand the monster choices in the dungeon, figuring Iggwilv would have bound some demonic creatures to her lair.  Plus, the original S4 introduced a lot of new demons to the 1st Ed Game and the BoVD added more to the 3rd ed game.

So I picked up the 4th Ed Book of Vile Darkness over the weekend to help buff up what would be in the game world version.

I have to admit, the 4e one does not compare to either the 3.0 version OR the 4e Demonomicon.
The 4e version is fine, don't get me wrong, but it lacks the gravitas the 3.0 version had.

It's not that the 3.0 is more graphic (graphic is not the same thing as useful or good) but it suffers from the basic fact that all the ideas that should be in have already appeared somewhere else.

I'll use the props that came with the 4e version, and I'll expand the 3.0 version to include the 4e (And really converting between the two systems is not that hard).  I'll use the monsters in the lower levels, espcially if I plan to add on the Thaizdun bits.

Plus the Dragonslayers need the book because it has a ritual to summon Tiamat.  They are all god characters, and the ritual requires the sacrifice of a "Rainbow Dragon" which at the moment they think is a Chaotic good faerie dragon.  Have not decided about that one yet.  They are just kids afterall.

Did I get my money's worth for the 4e book?  Yeah, I feel that I did. There are some very neat ideas and some cool things for a 4e game.  Not as much as I would have hoped for though.

Of course if I use the book in 3e, should I turn around and have it reappear in 4e or 5e?  No idea yet.  Let me get done with 3e first.

Oh. And my oldest son wants to go back to Mentzer Basic.  It figures really, I have tried to push Moldvay/Cook Basic D&D on him for so long that naturally he would only be interested in the one box I never really pull out.

Lack of brain

There were a lot of things I wanted to post over the last week or so, but my brain is mush.

To top everything of I worked 14 hours today to get ready for the Fall term that starts next week.
I am still not done.

So what do I know?

Well DriveThru is celebrating H. P. Lovecraft's birthday with some sales on Lovecraft inspired games.

Not sure if I am going to get to play Pathfinder next week cause of all the work I still have to do.

I did the math the other day and the DragonSlayers don't have enough gear, spells or HP to take on Tiamat yet.  Especially if I play her right.

I have about 12 started, but unfinished posts.  I hope to get some of them out to you all soon.

Gen Con 2011 Haul

I picked up:

OSRIC hardcover from the OSR booth.  Figured I should support the cause and I didn't have an OSRIC book anymore.

Call of Cthulhu 30th Anniversary Ed

DC Adventures Heroes and Villains

A bunch of the old Mayfair Role-Aids "Demons" books.  Four books and two boxed sets for 15 bucks. All still in their shrink wrap.
It's for 2nd Ed AD&D, but there are a lot of stats on the sheet (including ability scores) that all they are missing are skills and feats for 3.x.

And the Mage Knight Apocalypse Dragon to stand in for Tiamat when the Dragon Slayers battle her in the final battle of their campaign.
I spent more on this than I should have and more than my wife wanted me to, but I figure it is for the kids' last D&D 3 game so it should be worth it.

Shown here with Aspect of Tiamat and Orcus.  AoT takes up 3x3 squares, Orcus 4x4.  The Apocalypse Dragon, or in our game it will be the full manifestation of Tiamat, takes up 7x7.
It will be brutal.

The swag bag this year had magic cards, some True Dungeon tokens and a coupon for the Gen Con d6.  Though out of 4 bags we only got one coupon.

Game reviews later.

Post 666

I have reached a momentous milestone here at the Other Side.  This is my 666th post.  I feel compelled (by the Power of Satan!) to post about something devilish.

I have talked about Hell before and some of it's inhabitants and some potential inhabitants.  If I follow this logic then devils would be the ultimate foe for the elves.  Not that I don't mind this idea at all. But I think I might focus it a bit more.   Combine the story of Dante's Inferno, Milton's Paradise Lost and Lolth's shunning/betrayal and I can paint a pretty detailed idea of what Hell is in my world.

Hell is the ultimate prison for the fallen.  Gods, Angels and other powers are cast out and into hell.

Let's start with a couple of Goddess that give me some problems.

Tiamat is a Goddess and Queen of all evil dragons.  She has always been listed as having a domain on the first level of Hell.  I have never really liked that to be honest.  Tiamat is in Babylonian myth primal Chaos.  If anything she should be in the Abyss.  Using the new 4e cosmology that would place her in the Elemental Chaos, which is really the perfect place for her.  In Dragonlance her home was always called "the Abyss".  In my games I always called her realm Tehom, which means Abyss in Hebrew and is associated with the mythical Tiamat.  So she really has no place in Hell.  Who should replace her?

Lolth on the other hand is better fit.  Her story is more in line with the casting out of the Angels into Hell.  Though I am not sure I want her in Hell proper, maybe more of the Ante-chamber to Hell, near the Underdark. This would be similar to the first level of Hell that Dante claimed the Pagans went too.  So I am trading a giant dragon for a giant spider.   For a bit of tongue in cheek continuity I would make Tiamat and Lolth allies.  They have different goals and motivations, but I see them as felling they have a common history so if it benefits them to share an alliance, then they would. Lolth's realm is still called the Demonweb and she still has a number of demons in her employ.

Devils in my Game
Demons are easy.  They are evil, chaotic outsiders bent on destruction of everything.  Devils are much more complicated.  I say in my game Devils are only Fallen Angels.  That means there are a finite number of them and once they are gone, that is it.  There are a lot of creatures that are called devils, but most of them are demons pressed into service.  Since they have been forced into service by the Devils they have changed, they can evolve into greater forms.  Pit Fiends are those fiends that have reason up in ranks.  The True Devils still look down on them.

Since I started this post, Dreams of the Lich House posted a bit about using Satan/The Tempter in your games.  It is a good read.  It also ties in nicely with the Milton/Dante-ish cosmology I want to use for Hell.  I would keep the 9 layers.  The top most being the "Ante-Chamber of Hell" and the rest each ruled by an Arch Duke.  Also each Arch Duke is responsible for one of the Seven Deadly sins.

Layer	Name	Arch-Duke	Deadly Sin
1	Avernus	none	na
2	Dis	Dispater	Envy
3	Minauros	Mammon	Greed
4	Phlegethos	Belial	Sloth
5	Stygia	Geryon	Wrath
6	Malbolge	Glayssa	Lust
7	Maladomini	Baalzebul/Beelzebub	Gluttony
8	Cania	Mephistopheles	Pride
9	Nessus	Asmodeus	*

Glayssa was given Lust, Asmodeus' old sin since he is now in charge.  His though is the sin of betrayal.
In the 4e cosmology Asmodeus was the angel guarding the prison that Tharizdun was held in.  Tharizdûn corrupted him and Asmodues and his angels all fell.  I have decided that Tharizdun is still chained, but the greatest deceit is that he is not where all the gods think he is.  He is in fact buried deep in Hell where Asmodeus taps his power. This is how he has been elevated to near Godhood.  Of course this might be Tharizdun plan to to trap Asmodeus in his thrall even more.

Chances are good that the Dragonslayers will run into the cult of Tharizdun sometime soon.  I just need something to do with them.

I am not planning on the Dragonslayers going to Hell anytime soon, so this all might be for nothing.

Divine Intervention and the Nature of Dieties

How do you do divine intervention in your games?

Following up on the post about Clerics I have thought about how Gods interact with mortals.  Typically I give any character a base 1% chance to get divine intervention when they ask for it.  This is modified by how well they adhere to the tenets of their faith, the nature of their god, and even level (higher level characters can do more).  Of course nothing comes without a price.

In my 4e game coming up I am thinking that that the players will be visited often by the Raven Queen's avatar, in the form of a young girl ala Death from DC's Vertigo line and borrowing heavily from Amber Benson's "Death's Daughter" books.   I might even introduce her in the current adventure arc.

Presently the Dragonslayers are going after Tiamat. While they acknowledge that she is the "Goddess of Evil Dragons"  to them that just makes her bigger and more powerful to kill.  I am thinking I am ok with that for the most part.  It could be that Gods in my game are beings that just got really, really powerful.

If that is the case why do they need worshipers?  What purpose then is divine intervention for?

I had a character once who I took briefly into the Planescape setting.  Basically he was a jerk and didn't think that gods were anything special (sound familiar?), just powerful humans (or humanoids).  I later expanded his belief into an entire Plansescape faction, The Hermetic Order of Sigil, though he was not a member.

Interesting that all these years later I am still going back to the basic assumptions of my games and trying to figure out the underlying realities.

The Dragonslayers vs White Plume Mountain, Part 1b

So I picked up my 4e Draconomicon: Chromatic Dragons and read up on Dragotha.

Cool stuff really.  What they have there is largely compatible with what I want to do in my adventure.  Dragotha was Tiamat's consort, he was betrayed and left for dead.  In the Draconomicon he was "aided" by Kyuss.  I think I might not use that part or just not bring it up.

Course now is the big question.  Will Dragotha help the PCs or try to fight them?  I am going to have him under Kerapis' thrall, so as long as Keraptis is alive, then Dragotha will attack.  Would Dragotha know of the PC's quest?  They have not been secret about it to be sure.

So till next session, I'll hit the research.  Certainly I could "just make stuff" up, but I like the feeling of my little game being part of a larger world.  Plus one day, maybe one day soon, my boys will be searching for this stuff online too and I want them to be able to say "yes! I Was there, I did that."

What have I learned?

• Keraptis was a contemporary of Acererak.
• He delved into Necromancy, pretty deeply in fact.  He may have been one of Greyhawk's premier necromancers.
• He is most certainly a lich now; if not dead.
• The magical items are each connected to the elements, Whelm-Earth, Blackrazor-Fire, Wave-Water and a fourth, Seeker, an elven arrow for Air.  
• White Plume Mountain is a place of ancient magics.

To be sure, this is a lot of background for a guy that is essentially the Level 20 Boss.  But a well developed villain is a good villain.

I might change Seeker to a bow and my other son has been looking for a sword called "The Dragon Blade" that he is certain has to exist. I'd give it pluses for killing evil dragons and allow the wielder to be looked apon favorably by good dragons.  He is not interested in Blackrazor at all.  It might end up in Omar's shop!

I even found a place for the final battle, the Cave of Bones.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20010817a

Refs
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keraptis
http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=465
http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=464
http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=447

The Dragonslayers vs White Plume Mountain, Part 1

Sunday was cold and rainy, so the perfect day to recover some stolen magical artifacts in a volcano!

The Dragonslayers (my kids' 3.x game) ventured into the classic module White Plume Mountain.  I changed the set up a bit, they have been hired by one of my more infamous NPCs, Crazy Omar, to recover Whelm, which he claims is owned by his family.  He tells them of Wave and Blackrazor and that representatives of their owners (which of course are already dead now).

I spent a couple days cutting out and taping the the White Plume Mountain Dungeon tiles I reviewed a while back, and the boys loved them!  They liked being able to see the doors and being able to write on the maps themselves.  BTW i figured if I printed the map out and connected all the tiles they would be about 7 feet by 5 feet.

Astute readers will recognize Fire and Ice back there as well (they are quasi NPCs in this game). Our minis are an eclectic lot of D&D minis, Heroclix, Darksword, and Heroscape. More astute OSR players will recognize this as room 10. 

My sons' ranger/arcane archer found the deeper pool and they made short work of Sea Hag and her pet, even with me boosting the Hag using some of my new rules on the witch (all hags in my game can take levels in Witch).

We had to cut short the adventure, diner was ready, but we will be getting back to it very soon.  I think my youngest wants Blackrazor, my oldest, who plays the Dragonborn Paladin, wants nothing to do with it.

I am dropping some of the Cthulhu-ish ideas I had earlier in favor of running it "straight", but there is something I just can't pass up.  A totally throw-away by Erol Otis I am sure, but the picture has always intrigued me. 

My boys after all are the "Dargonslayers" and Dragotha has to be one of the most powerful dracolich around. I figure he is a ancient (1,000+ years) red dragon lich.  I'll have him breath "black fire".  Give the boys something to really remember.  Maybe even put Kerapis on top of him, a lich of course.  Make them both pretty difficult to beat. 

Spoke too soon!  I found this online, http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pr/20081105a.  Sweet.  And given that he is in 4th Edition, I might let him escape to plague the characters when we move over to 4e.  Plus, his stats are pretty much custom made for my son Liam!  Red dragon, dracolich, breaths cold blue necrotic fire, I am a bit surprised he never pointed this dragon out to me before in fact.  He does own all the Draconomicons.

To fit it into themythology of the game, Dragotha was once the red dragon consort of Tiamat.  Like all her consorts though he did something to offend the great Queen of Dragons and she killed him.  Of course Dragotha and Kerapis had already struck up a deal.  Kerapis, already a lich himself, turned the great dragon into a demi-lich and has been in Kerapis' service ever since.   If the players kill Kerapis first then Dragotha is free and he will use that freedom to lay waste to Kerapis' lair; ignoring the characters (till another time!).  The Dragonslayers only need his tooth to complete their own ritual to create a portal to Tiamat's lair.

This will be fun!

Epic Dragonslayers

A couple of the Dragonslayer characters hit 19th level over the weekend.

I let my boys play two characters each, but sometimes the characters can vary.  My oldest has a cast of 6-7 that he uses two at a time.  Well both boys now have a character each that are 19th level.  The lowest ones are still 15.

I am planning to let them take ALL their characters for the final battle with Tiamat.  Yeah, yeah I know, not really a good role-playing experience for them and more of a roll-playing one, but it is the final battle and the last time they will be able to use any of these characters.

Plus I have a couple more adventures I want them to do before that big battle.

So I am considering using the Epic Level rules.

Anyone have any insights, tips, suggestions?

The Message

That is the name of this story my oldest son has been writing.  His teacher is very proud of him and so are his mom and dad!  But beyond how cool that is, today during our Dragonslayer session he ran "The Message" for the very, very first time as a game.  This was his very first time running a D&D game and frankly I thought he did really well.

We took the Dragonslayers, including his own character as a quasi DM-PC (I'll help run him) and I got a chance to play my witch again.  The one I rolled up back when D&D 3.0 was new and my witch book was in playtest.

The adventure was simple enough.  We (the characters) had to cross Druid Woods and deliver a message (thus the name) to a Baron on the other side of the forest.   Simple right? What could go wrong?  Well we were attacked many times in the woods by kobolds, hobgoblins and (much to my joy) a rogue druther and an evil treant. Of course the Baron had been kidnapped and we needed to save him from being the main event in a sacrifice to Tiamat.  We saved the Baron (who turned out to be a Neutral Blue Dragon in human form) and we were attacked by a huge adult red Dragon (in my boy's world Reds and Blues hate each other so much that they will work with anyone to defeat the other).

Baron saved, returned home and the message delivered.  It really was great fun.  Liam (my oldest) said he toned down the Red.  We got the initiative on him and dealt what I felt was a respectable 64 hp damage to it.  Then he turned around and did a 48 to all of us on his first attack (and that was with the elemental protection my witch set up).  He toned the dragon down a touch and we all came out of it more or less intact.

It was really, really fun.  Liam did a great job and it was nice to not only see him running a game and doing a good job, but also running an adventure he wrote all on his own.

Connor (my youngest) also got in some good playing too.  We found a gold necklace and I said his character could have it for his girl-friend, to which he replied "What girlfriend?  I am too busy adventuring to have time for one of those!"  And when we fought a fire elemental he told us that "I hate these guys, when I was younger they attacked my village and killed my mother."  No idea where that came from.

Maybe next time we will hit the mountains.

Next up: At the White Plume Mountains of Madness

The next adventure for the Dragonslayers (my kids' group) is to go to the White Plume Mountain.  They know they need to recover another relic of the Cult of Tiamat, this time the tooth of the largest red dragon that ever lived.  They have heard rumors that what they seek is in a volcano.

The idea of this adventure was to go to a mountain in snowy area.  So I using the 3.x conversion of S2 White Plume Mountain (and the original) and I am going to set it in a near Arctic area.  I am also going to fill it full of Lovecraftian Horrors since my boys both know who Cthulhu is.  Meld the two together a bit for some good old fashioned dungeon crawl of horror fun.

The adventure is actually very short; shorter than I remembered it.  Plus my youngest has been asking about the most powerful swords in D&D so I think it is time he sees Blackrazor.

Could my Answer be in the Realms?

I am moving my 3.x game over to a 4e one soon.    I have been buying up the Essentials books and some modules and I generally have what I think is a cool idea for campaign.  The world is fleshed out and I know what I am going to use and what I am not.

Except there is one little-bity problem. So much of what was true in my 3.x world no longer "works" under 4e.  Or rather it works so differently now that it is hard to see it working the same way when I was playing 3.x.  Then there are other issues.  My kids want to play the children of their D&D 3.x characters and these characters have some serious magic.  And there is the whole killing Tiamat thing they want to do.   How do I explain the changes?

Turns out the answer was under my nose this whole time.  In the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide.

I was never a fan of the Realms.  I considered it to be a pretender to Greyhawk and not a very worthy one at that.  I picked up the 3.0 Realms Guide when it came out and I liked it.  I felt it was a good book and all it really was missing was monsters.  The new 4e campaign books are a good model too.

But what I like the most about the Realms book is how completely gonzo it is.  Smash two planets together to get one world! I love that!  Spell plagues? Bring it on!

I know I have talked around all of this before in many posts, but it is time to make it more real I think.

So what will I include from the Forgotten Realms book in my Game World?

First, well, it is going to be in the future.  I am going to say about 25 to 30 years.  Not 100% sure, but long enough to have the world changing events happen at least a generation ago.  The Characters of this game have only know the world as it is now, never the world before.

Next, there will be a Spellplague.  The defeat of Tiamat and the Ascension of Asmodeus are just parts of that.  I am also going to have Raven Queen in my game and she just killed Nerull.  There will other things of course, but it was a series of Cosmos-shaking events that left the world changed.  The Fey-wild is now easier to get too, as is the Shadowfell (previously only known as the Plane of Shadow).  The main effect for the PCs is that some of the old magic no longer works.  So there is a quest for sources of "Old Magic" or even "True Magic".  With this, some older magic items are now useless.  Of course the spellplague was chaotic so some normal items are now magical.  There is still magic to be found out there "New" and "Old".
Living things touched by it have been altered.  There will be spell scarred.

The ancient Astral empire of the Tieflings, Bael-Turath, has crashed into the world.  Here I am taking inspiration from the 90's TV show "Alien Nation".  Though this is a "magical crash" so there are now lands where there are ruins of the Tiefling society that seem ancient and always part of the land.  Bael-Turath had warred against Asmoedeus and the devils for countless centuries.  Part of Asmodeus' ascension was to reclaim the power that emperors of Bael-Turath had stolen from the Nine Hells.  The tieflings are now a broken, homeless race with members now fond all over the world and many still in the Astral Sea.

The Blood War is over.  With Asmodeus' Ascension and the Reckoning of Hell, the long war with the demons is over.  Asmodeus even managed to conscript entire demonic species under the auspices of Hell.  With the the power he gained Asmodeus broke the paths through the Astral that the demons and devils used to attack each other, effectively blocking demons from being able to enter the Prime Material.  If a demon wants to get to the Prime Material plane it has to go through Hell first.  By the time of the new game the distinction between "demon" and "devil" is a loose one in most peoples minds.  Plus the entire race of yugoloths were sacrificed in the process, with many seeking refuge in either the Abyss or Hell.
Asmodeus covets the Material World and wanted to bring Hell into it.  Here he failed, but managed to get it much "closer" metaphysically speaking.

One repercussion of this though is demons now focus on the Prime Material.  While it is harder for them to reach it now, many still do and with out the Blood War to contend with it is possible that more demons than ever are now attacking mortals.   This is something Asmodeus wants.  He has placed members of his cult in areas to fit demons and rally humans to his cause.  As the game progresses the influence of this cult will be more readily felt. To combat this the Gods will be using the mortal realm as their battlefield.

I think this is a good start and gives me a good idea of what my end game needs to be too.  Lolth, in one form or another will have hand in all of this too.  Events that began in my Shadow War of 1st Ed are now coming to a head.

Now I need to figure out who the main bad guys are and what they want to get out of all of this.

So...Have you ever killed a God?

As you know I am gearing up for my Dragon Slayer's campaign end game.  One of the goals of the Dragon Slayers has always been to kill Tiamat on her own plane.

This could have some fairly epic effects.

If this were the last game then no big deal, but we are moving to 4e after this and will using the "kids" of the characters  that are retiring.  I have already decided that the kids can have a magic item each given their famous and powerful parents.  But what of Tiamat?  And the idea of the 4e modules is to kill Orcus and maybe even others.

Will she still be "dead"?  What does that mean to all the evil dragons?
While talking with Jason Vey today he says that in his world that unless every worshiper is dead then the god can't die.  I like that idea myself.  But what does that mean the Dragon Slayers did?

Tiamat is at least a bit easier.  She can have a daughter, Takhisis who will become the new Dragon Queen in time.  Didn't Marduk kill Tiamat once too?

Orcus is also not a big deal.  He is a demon, demons can be replaced.  Plus I could put my own demon lord or put Vecna in as God of the Undead (though he doesn't seem like a good fit to me).

What if I continue my plan to have Orcus as nothing more than a blunt tool and have Asmodeus as the Big Bad?  What if the characters kill him?

So what have you all done?
Have you killed a God before?  What happened afterwards?