Showing posts with label dragonslayers. Show all posts
Showing posts with label dragonslayers. Show all posts

Wednesday, June 29, 2016

The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga

Well, it has taken us a year but we finally finished the Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga.

I made some changes to the adventure to have it fit in better with the overall arc of the Dragonslayers in their quest to stop the rise of Tiamat.  I also foreshadowed events of my Come Endless Darkness and War of the Witch Queen campaigns.

In the process of this adventure the characters began roughly at 20th-24th level in 3.x, converted over to 5e and they are leaving the adventure as 1st Ed characters.  In the course of the year they leveled up in the Hut so now everyone is about 29th level.  This is the reason for the switch to 1st ed since I think it handles 20+ levels better than 3e or 5e.   Also in the course of the last year I took bits and pieces from the Dragon Magazine (1st Edition) version of the Hut and something I found for 4th edition.

They fought the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

The last Rainbow Dragon.

The dragon is supposed to be this dragon:

And finally, a re-ensouled, and very, very pissed off Kostchtchie.

For Kostchtchie I used an idea I had read years ago in White Dwarf #15; the Russian Nesting Doll monster.  Though I flipped it and started with a kobold, then a goblin, orc, hobgoblin, ogre, hill giant and then finally Kostchtchie himself.    Freaked the kids out that each time they hit him he got stronger.
Yes, that is one of the old ogre figures from the AD&D action figures line.

I mentioned in my review of this adventure that it is more plot driven than the other S series adventures. Baba Yaga is more of a defined character than say Acererak or Drelnza. In fact, she is presented in much of the same manner as Strahd was in Castle Ravenloft. Though there is the assumption that the PCs won't be so stupid as to attack her. Could the right group do it? Sure, but that is not the fun of this adventure. The fun here is investigating her magical hut and finding things that might be unique in your world. The Hut itself is almost a mini-campaign world, complete with it's own rules of magic and control over the daylight and nighttime hours. It does recall some of the "funhouse" dungeons of the S series in terms of what is being offered but there is some logic applied to most of the rooms. Others, unfortunately, feel like filler.
It was a fun adventure, but not one that really lives up to the S legacy or the potential of Baba Yaga herself.

Now given the levels the characters are at I will need to start looking into some of the really high level adventures for them.  Though really they should be ready to retire.

I did add Baba Yaga as a fully stated out monster thanks to the Baba Yaga Boss Stats (5E) from 00Games. But thankfully the kids did not piss her off enough to attack her.

Up next...are the Dragonslayers ready to stop the rise of Tiamat?

Wednesday, June 8, 2016

White Plume Mountain at DriveThruRPG

One of the all-time greatest classic modules is now available at DriveThruRPG.

S2 White Plume Mountain

I had an absolute blast playing this with my kids.  They STILL talk about how they got Blackrazor.

DriveThru has a number of great files to go with this too.
White Plume Mountain Dungeon Tiles (lots of fun!)
White Plume Mountain Revised (3.5)

The PDF is the older mono-chrome cover, but I love this Jeff Dee one.

Friday, April 15, 2016

A to Z of Adventure! M is for Masters Series

M is for Masters Series.

The Masters series of adventures were created for the BECMI version of D&D.  Typically around here I have BECMI as roughly synonymous with B/X D&D or "Basic D&D" well....the M or Master Series is around to remind me that this is not really the case.

So a bit history.
The first Basic Set was authored by John Eric Holmes in 1977.  Gamers often call this "Blue Book Basic".
The next Basic Set was written by Tom Moldvay and was followed by the Cook/Marsh Expert Set. These books are collectively known as B/X.
The next set would be the last "Basic D&D". It was written and edited by +Frank Mentzer and included the Basic, Expert, Companion, Masters and Immortal sets. Also known as BECMI.
Each set detailed more levels of the game; 1-3, 4-14, 15-25, 26-36, and Immortality, respectively.

The Masters set and M series of modules were designed for experienced players and characters of 26th level and higher.

Only five M series modules were made.

Code Title Levels Author(s) Published Notes
M1 Into the Maelstrom 25–30 Bruce Heard, Beatrice Heard 1985
M2 Vengeance of Alphaks 28–32 Skip Williams 1986
M3 Twilight Calling 30–35 Tom Moldvay 1986
M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom 28–32 Allen Varney 1987
M5 Talons of Night 20–25 Jannell Jaquays 1987

Of these I only own M1, M3 and M5.

The simple matter is few characters get to this high of a level and often when they do the DM usually has their own adventures for them.

M1 Into the Maelstrom is a cool adventure with flying ships which became some of a fasination for +Bruce Heard.  If I were to play this one I would naturally have to include material from Bruce's own Calidar, In Stranger Skies setting.  Or set it in Calidar...hmmm this gives me some ideas.

M3 Twilight Calling is from the creative mind of the late Tom Moldvay.  Tom is something of a celebertiy in my home games. Every adventure I have run of his my family likes.  Likes enough to ask who wrote it. After saying Tom Moldvay for the third time (Castle Amber, Isle of Dread, Lost City, Secret of the Slavers Stockade...).   It is my favorite M series module and has the players go on a plane-hopping adventure to finally get to the Plane of Nightmares.  I have often thought it would make for a perfect "Final Adventure" for any party.

M5 Talons of Night by Jannell Jaquays is also fun, and really deadly adventure.  I grabbed it becuase of the dragon on the cover.  If M3 is the finale for my "Come Endless Darkness" game then M5 should be the finale of my "Dragonslayers" game.
Plus, it always reminds me of this song.

I mentioned H4 with it's 18-100 level range, and it is deadly.  But that adventure is just really a scaled up 20th level adventure.  These adventures are qualitatively different.

I am just disappointed that they are not available yet on DriveThruRPG as PDFs, though I am glad I have mine.

Monday, November 16, 2015

Kid's Games

I totally missed Friday Night Videos the other night.  Sorry. Insane day at work. I didn't even know about Paris till I got home Friday night.

OneBookshelf is running their annual "Teach your Kids to Game Week" with lots of sales on introductory material for kids.

While I totally applaud such efforts, I think back to how I learned and how I taught my own kids and we all started with D&D.

In fact my oldest son has been playing for close to 11 years now.  He is still playing his first character in our Dragonslayers game.  We began the game in early 2005 with "The Cave of the Stinky Goblin" and now have a host of epic-level bad asses.

This weekend we even took some time to play the children of the Dragonslayers, the Order of the Platinum Dragon in the next part of the Slaver's series.  The big "reveal" is coming soon and I can't wait to spring it on my players.

Saturday, August 15, 2015

RPG a Day 2015, Day 15

Day 15: Longest Campaign Played

I would have to say my Dragonslayers game which began with my oldest son around 2005 or so.  This year it will 10 years in.  Even my current Order of the Platinum Dragon game is a continuation of it.

Though technically it is a continuation of my Mystoerth game I began in 1980.

But let's just call it 10 years.

Monday, June 15, 2015

Halfway, Fortunes of Ravenloft and the Foreshadowing

Got in a lot of gaming this weekend!

Saturday the Order of the Platinum Dragon found themselves still stuck in the mists.  They stumbled on to Halfway.  Here they met the Dealer and had the Fortunes of Ravenloft read.  We are not going to play Ravenloft till Gen Con, but I have 5 nights to run it.

I used Tarot cards for the Fortunes (because why not).  I have done that in the past, but I also found this AD&D1st Ed to D&D5 conversion of Ravenloft that also used Tarot cards.
With the PDF out I can print both of these out and run it from those.

Sunday we went "back in time" to the Dragonslayers.  They finished up their exploration of the Barrier Peaks.  Here they encountered, for the very first time, the Illithids.  Something that was not lost on my kids.

The "Order of the Platinum Dragon" characters are all the children or grand children of the "Dragonslayers".   So I am setting up the Mind Flayer threat a generation early.

I know what I have in store for the Order, I just need to figure out what is next for the Dragonslayers.

Monday, April 27, 2015

The Dragonslayers Assemble!

The Dragonslayers are fresh off their victory over the Tomb of Horrors.  We had one near casualty and one character that had to take that other character back. They are now headed home but the Barrier Peaks are in their way.

We converted our 3e based Dragonslayers game over to 5e last session.  I wanted to try something new again, Castles and Crusades, but ended up overruled. So we are sticking with 5e.

Last night we began the Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.  I am using 5th Ed. D&D along with the 1st Edition versions of the module (the original, the new reprints and the old S1-4 super-module Realms of Horror) along with the 3e updates and some 5e updates supplied to me by +Rich Howard.

They all mix together nicely in a big vat of D&D goodness.  I am also adding in some material from the classic 1st Edition version of Metamorphosis Alpha.  I have already specifically decided that this is the Starship Warden.  In addition to carrying colonists it was carrying a number of Ilithid prisoners to be dropped of at a penal colony prior to going to high warp.

Since my other 5e game with most of the same players takes place in the future of the Dragonslayers, I am setting up the Ilithids as being one of the major bad guys.  It should work out nicely really.

With this adventure I will have run the Dragonslayers through all of the S-Series of modules, and it had been a total blast.

Monday, March 2, 2015

Tomb of Horrors, Finale

Yesterday the Dragonslayers finished up the Tomb of Horrors.  They defeated the Demi-Lich Acererak and found their way out.

A total of seven potions of extra-healing where used, three healing, and many cure * wounds spells.
One character was dropped down to point where she had to be taken out of the dungeon by one of the hirelings (a zero hp, but stabilized). Three characters nearly died in Acererak's tomb alone.   One character was hit with Acererak's soul sucking ray, but we determined that since the character (Lawful Good Dragonborn Paladin) was protected by his god (Bahamut) he was allowed Advantage on his save.  Which is good since one of his rolls had been a 1.

We had converted all the Dragonslayers characters from 3.x to 5th edition, focusing on archetypal conversion rather than direct conversion.   It seems to have worked out really  nice.

Again my youngest son loved this one. He was in his element; solving puzzles, finding traps. I set the disable DC of most traps at 35, but he still managed to get some.

Conversions were a breeze on the module itself; I have versions of it for every edition of game except for 5.  Given the history of the game, I suspect we will see 5th Edition conversions in the future.

Up next is S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. This will take care of all the S-series modules.  We played them "out of order" but I think this worked well for us. Plus there is no real order to the S series anyway.

Tuesday, February 17, 2015

President's Day Gaming - Converting to 5e from 3.x

Had yesterday off so wanted to spend the day doing some gaming.

My boys wanted to play our 5e game, but we were a player down, so I suggested we wrap up our 3e game.  That didn't go over as well to be honest.
Both boys said they were burned out on 3e and everything took so long compared to 5e.  I reminded them that their 3e characters are nearing Epic levels and all combats will take forever at that level.

So long story short, we all decided to convert the 3e game to something else.  I was pushing pretty hard for 1st Ed but the boys wanted 5th ed.  I cant say that I blame them really.

Converting adventures is easy. I do that on the fly 90% of the time anyway.  Converting characters is a bit more involved.  The group's wizard converted fine. For the paladin/dragon-rider we went with a straight paladin.  The rogue/ranger/sorcerer/arcane archer required me to get more creative. In 5e the character became a rogue (arcane trickster)/ranger (hunter).  I let him take spells from the sorcerer list or the druid list where appropriate for the character concept and what he had been able to do in the past.

My 3.e Witch GMPC was more difficult.  I started out by converting her to a Warlock with a pact of the Tome feature.  This gives me access to more spells.  I then took the Magic Initiate feat and the Ritual Caster feat to gain some extra spells.  I like it, but I am not 100% happy with it.

It occurs to me that that old 2nd Ed Witch Kit and the 4th Ed Witch "sub" class might be good starting points for what a 5th ed witch might look like using the wizard as a base.

I compared the Wizard and Warlock in form of Skylla for 5th a while back.  With her I Was happier with the Wizard build even though the Warlock build had some interesting things going for it.

It is worth a little extra research.  I am NOT in the market to build a 5e Witch class right now.  I still have other commitments to finish.  Plus I enjoy playing 5e and not necessarily having to play and play-test with the same game.

Besides I think I would like to see some other people's take on a witch class.

Thursday, August 14, 2014

#RPGaDAY Day 14, Best Convention Purchase

#RPGaDAY Day 14, Best Convention Purchase

Hard to say.  I bought some really fun games on a whim at cons before.

But I think it has to be this giant 5 headed dragon I am using in place of Tiamt for my kids games.

It's a Mage Knight "Apocalypse Dragon" but that works for my game great.

Not saying what I spent on it. But it was more than my wife wanted.

Tuesday, February 25, 2014

D&D40 Bloghop: Day 25

Day 25: Longest running campaign/gaming group you've been in.

This one is pretty easy.
I have been able to play in some pretty cool groups, but the one that has lasted the longest and the one I get the most enjoyment out of is Dragonslayers.

The Dragonslayers began as a way of teaching my oldest son how to play.  He was only about 4 years old at the time. I began with some very simple rules, but mostly based around D&D 3rd Ed.

I added in bits of Star Wars d20, BESM d20 and Mutants & Masterminds.  Over the years we also added my youngest son.  I have talked about the group many times here.

Presently the Dragonslayers are all in Epic levels, 24-26.  Yeah I wanted to do somethings with 4e too, so I am using the 3.x Epic Level Handbook and ideas from 4e. I have one more adventure to take them through and then it is off to the Dragon's Isle to fight Tiamat.  It will be epic!

Monday, December 9, 2013

Return of the Dragon

So I got this in the mail the other day.

I had this poster when it first came out.  I honestly have no memory of how I got it except that it was something I had to send off for.
I had it till college and had it hanging on my wall in typical college fashion.  That is till my idiot roommate got mad at me one day and ripped it down.

Ever since then I have wanted one.  Well thanks to magic that is eBay I finally got another one.
I am not going to tell you what I paid, save it was more than most people would have been willing to part with, but enough that I am happy. It was still rolled up in the original tube in fact!  

The poster is actually in very, very good shape for being 30 years old.

The timing is great since the Dragonslayers (my kids group) need something from a "rainbow dragon" to finish their quest.

Sunday, November 24, 2013

Tomb of Horrors

Today the Dragonslayers ventured into the most fabled of all dungeons, the infamous Tomb of Acereak himself. The Tomb of Horrors!

I am running the 3e version of this module with ideas stolen from the 4e version and the 2nd ed Return to the Tomb of Horrors.  Additionally we are using this map set to help us along the way.

So far so good.  My youngest loves the traps and he very meticulous on checking each one.  It was even his idea to use a 10' pole on the Green Devil Face to check for traps and he found the Sphere of Annihilation. He loves the puzzles and really has a brain for them.  My oldest prefers good old fashioned combat.  They both were able to guess the correct sequence of the Yellow/Blue/Orange gems right away.  Sure a couple of characters have been hit with some poison, but the brought plenty vials of healing, curing and cure poison.   Though they have taken quite a bit of hitpoint damage.

So far it has been a great followup to S4/WG4.
The Dragonslayers have now finished S4, S2 and now working on S1.  I wasn't going to do S3 (Expedition to the Barrier Peaks) but now I think I might.  It would be a lot of fun.

We played for 6 hours (or more) today and I think we can knock this one out fairly quickly.

Sunday, December 30, 2012

Return of the Dragon Slayers!

I got a chance to play with the boys again today.  We continued the DragonSlayers game from a while back.  To recap they had just entered the Temple of Tharizdun and had held off the advancing hordes with a Wall of Flame spell.

I upped the stats of all the goblins, trolls and norkers in the place to make them partially demonic.  Centuries of interbreeding has made them them evil, but dumb.  The boys cleared out one side of the temple and found the access to the Black Cyst.  

They recovered the Lament of Tharizdun, but the mostly Neutral Good party wants nothing to do with it.  They have no issue with the legendary 333 gems of Tharizdun.  

I am setting Tharizdun up as the next big bad.  But not till the next generation. That is the 1st Ed AD&D game I started with the children of these characters.

I printed out the newer symbol of Tharizdun and had it ready. One of the demonic trolls had it on his armor, so I showed it to the boys.  After some Knowledge Arcana, History and Religion rolls I announced that they didn't know what it was.  My youngest, playing a half-elf Sorcerer/Ranger/Arcane Archer stated "I know exactly what it is. It's a target!!" and he fired two flaming arrows into the troll.

I have to admit, I was pretty amused by that!

They finished the adventure and high tailed it back to Glantri City.  They are planning on taking a couple of months break before the next leg of their adventures, but I doubt it will be that long.  There is some trouble brewing in Two Lake Vale and strange cloud over the land.

Thursday, August 30, 2012

I Hate Myself for Loving You

Interesting article up on the whole Graz'zt/Iggwilv love affair.

Rule specific material is minor and can be adapted to any version of the game.  I am going to use this with my 1st ed game in fact.

As can be expected I like Iggwilv.  To my knowledge no one has ever penned her "biography" in full, but it would make for a good read I think.  Raised by Baba Yaga, infiltrating the Circle of Eight, her years with Graz'zt as master, lover, prisoner and bitter rival.  The authoring of the Demonomicon.  The Rise and Fall of the Witch Queen.

Iggwilv is a great villain not because she is evil (though she is that) it is because she lack any moral compass whatsoever.  If she needs a tome of magic and entire village stands between her then she had no issues burning it down to the ground.  It isn't because she doesn't care, it because she has no concept that anyone other than herself matters.  

I am sure she is going to play some role in my 3.x and 1st ed games.

Sunday, August 26, 2012

Gaming Wrap-up

With Gen-Con, some time off and weekend gaming I have managed to get a ton of gaming in over the last couple weeks.  Here is a wrap-up

The Dragonslayers are heading into Epic levels, but there are some characters that need some help filling out their last levels.  Also my kids wanted some side-quests for some special magic weapons, so we did that.
Module: WG4 (upgraded)

1st Edition Game
The boys left B1 and on their way discovered the Keep on the Borderlands.  They are currently planning their attack on the first of the caves.
Module: B1

4th Ed Game
The larger group is getting ready to attack an sort of different Keep, this time the Keep on the Shadowfell.  They still don't know who Nera is, but are learning more about the cult of Orcus.  They also just learned a big secret, the God of the Dead, Kelemvor is dead himself.  No new god of the Dead has been named.
Module: H1

All in all the games are going very well.  My two boys, the commonality in all groups, have now played at least 5 different versions of the D&D rules in the last couple of weeks.  It has been a blast.

I like using the modules for a couple of reasons.  First, I want them to experience these classic adventures.  And it helps me keep three (or more) games and adventures straight in my head.

No idea what we are doing next week.

This week it is back to work.

Monday, August 20, 2012

Gen Con recap: The name of the game is "D&D"

I did something truly special this Gen Con. Something that I would love to repeat.

I played D&D with my family through the entire Con.  One of the things I wanted to do with my boys was to play the history of D&D with them.  I didn't get into every game I wanted, but I got in enough to make it count.  I also wanted my wife to join in so she could give her unbiased opinion of the games.  I have learned to trust her judgment on many, many things over the years.

Part of the plan was that any XP, gold or magic the boys got in the games they could translate that over to  the special 1st Ed Game we were playing at night.

We played a D&D4 game on Thursday.  It was a fun game where we all played Dwarfs.  The DM was great and he played well with the kids.  Thursday night I had a game of my own to play (which I'll discuss later).

Friday was our Castles and Crusades game.  I REALLY wanted to play this one after going on and on so much about C&C a while back.  I picked up my new copies of the 5th printing of the Players Handbook and Jason Vey's amazing Amazing Adventures.  The game we played was also a lot of fun.  Again we had a great Castle Keeper, and in this we all played Assassins.  My youngest loved it.

Friday night we rolled up characters for 1st Ed AD&D!!  They rolled up two each, and these are the children of the Dragonslayers (their current 3.x game).  That took us till midnight since I had to look a lot of things up and we were sitting on the 2nd floor of the JW Marriott and everyone had stop by and comment on what we were doing.

Saturday we played D&D5/Next.  If I would have known we were making characters I would have gone into it with a different mindset.  But it worked out well and character creation was a snap.  Really.  It only took me 30 mins to do my character and help out my wife and two kids.  I playtested the Warlock and I like it so far.  The game itself was fast, I mean really fast. I am going to come back to that in a sec in fact.

Saturday night we played AD&D 1st ed.  I had the boys go on a quick adventure into Castle Quasqueton from B1 In Search of the Unknown.  The boys had some great rolls and they even took out some orcs, zombies and a group of kobolds. The boys made their objective (which happened to be a on sheet of paper I wrote on when I ran this in college around 1988-9 or so), find a missing witch (Marissa) and bring her back.  I hinted there was an evil cult at work (cause that was what I was doing in 88) and the boys ran with it.  Now this cult is "infiltrating" the lands and they now have to put a stop to it.  I might run with that.

Fighting the Kobolds
Quite by accident one of the common elements in the D&D5/Next playtest and my AD&D game on the same day was the party (6 and 5 characters respectively) fought 4 kobolds.  The combat for each ran very, very similar.  In both cases it was fast with hit points flying everywhere and characters on the verge of death. I can say that in at least this respect D&D5 is closer to old-school play than 3 or 4 was.

It dawned on me at one point or another while playing Saturday night.  I was playing AD&D. With my boys. At Gen Con!  I play a lot of D&D with them and I have played a lot of AD&D over the years, but this felt special. This felt like the best thing I could do then and there.

I have no idea what I am going to do with D&D5 when it comes out.  At this very same Gen Con Wizards of the Coast had announced that D&D5 would not be out till 2014.  That is a very good year in my mind.  Still gives us time to play some 4e AND be out in time for the 40th anniversary of D&D.
WotC also announced that previous editions would be made available again via e-book format of some sort.

There were copies of 1st Ed for sale at Gen Con and we all also picked up a full set of D&D "Drow" dice.

For me there is no debate. D&D still reigns as king at Gen Con.

Monday, June 18, 2012

New Game Group and Game!

There is nothing quite like the excitement of a new gaming group.
New people getting together for the first time, new characters, new game, new worlds to explore.

My oldest son has a friend that really wants to learn to play D&D. So I talked to his mother and she is thrilled about it too. She used to play Werewolf back in college.  We are also going to add his younger brother and my youngest too.  So a total of four boys ages 9 to 12.

My oldest plays in a group now that he is continuing with. They are playing Castles and Crusades and having a good time with that.  My oldest and youngest are still playing our 3.x Epic game, the DragonSlayers.

Given I still have all this 4e stuff I want to get my money's worth out off, we are going to play Fourth Edition D&D.

I think it is going to be a great time to be honest.

Right now the plans are to play every other Saturday.
I picked up the Forgotten Realms books at Half-Price books a while back dirt cheap so maybe we will play in the Realms.  I have never done that before.

My kids created their characters yesterday and I am going to use the companion rules to let them have a human or animal companion.  My oldest is playing two characters a Dragonborn Paladin/Warlord and Genasi Sorcerer,  My youngest is playing a Half-elf Bard.  I am planning to go totally 4e gonzo on this too.  Use all the options, the cards, everything.

So yeah, it is about as far from an old school game as you can get, but you know what, it is going to be a blast!  I can't wait to get started!

I am not likely to use the "Basic Levels" idea I came up with.  Which is too bad really, cause I really liked that.  But hey, who knows.  Let's see what the kids want.

Sunday, June 10, 2012

Tiamat on my Mind

Been doing some research on the end game of my kids D&D 3.x game and I have been thinking a lot about Tiamat.  The kids are going to fight her in the end, but I wanted something more than the big five-head dragon of the AD&D Monster Manual, and not exactly like the Takhisis of Dragonlance.

So I hit the "books". (for the Forgotten Realms info)

And inspirational posts:

Well I also hit the real books too.

One thing I recall thinking up years ago was that Tiamat in the old myths was the personification of Chaos.  This idea was reaffirmed with me when I, like many others, dabbled in Chaos Math and Science (it was the 90s, all the cool grad students were doing it).   Tiamat is primordial chaos.   Well what is that in D&D?  Simple, the Abyss.  So I have placed Tiamat in the Abyss, but it is not-quite-the-Abyss.  Her realm is Tehom, the Hebrew word for abyss or deep.  It is also related to the Kabbalah, being one of the Qliphoth.  Tiamat and Tehom also are have etymological relations.

Zak even talks a bit about fighting Tiamat and the mytho-historical Tiamat near the end of his interview over at Penny Red. (1:20:00 or around there).

Tiamat and Lolth
In my games Tiamat and Lolth are strong allies (no, not like this). Mostly because I have effectively had them swap places; Lolth becoming LE and in Hell, Tiamat CE and in the Abyss.  But also because they have similar backstories.  Both were (are) gods. Both were cast out by male Gods to establish some new order.  I can see each seeing something of herself in the other, and not in a self-loathing way (Lolth in my world is full of self-loathing, no pun intended) but rather as solidarity.  Their views are radically different, but their plans for conquest do not conflict really.  So they see each other as an ally.  Not best friends or anything like that, but there is mutual trust built up over centuries.  They are evil, not stupid.   If I were to play this out then I would have an alliance between the Drow and a group of dragons.  Most likely the red dragons, like what the Githyanki do.  I might even revise that a bit and say it was a select group Drow that went to serve Tiamat and she in return had some dragons serve Lolth.  Of course they are spies, but everyone knows this.

Here is an odd entry, attributed to the Demonomicon that Lolth is the offspring of Tiamat and Alrunes, the Queen of Sorcery.   Not quite sure about that one really.  But I have conjectured that Orcus is the offspring of Tiamat.  That would give me a hook too.

Of course I had this evil thought of using  the Scales of War material for the last few adventures.

Just a little late night research.

Anything cool about Tiamat or Lolth I should know?
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