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Thanks to Trollsmyth for the link (and then on to his friend Jeff).

Pathfinder, Game 2: The Big Kids

We started what will hopefully be a long running Pathfinder game with the "big kids".  This is my normal play-test group of the last few years, plus some guys that my DM Greg knows.  So far it has been a lot of fun.  Some of our players are missing the over the top acrobatics and "cinematic fantasy combat" of 4e and we are still making references to 4e in the game, I think it will go over well.

Our DM Greg is posting the play reports over on his blog, Rhonin's Ramblings, so some of my discussion about the game might end up over there as well. http://rhoninsramblings.blogspot.com/2010/04/pathfinder-campaign-chapter-11.html

We call it the "Big Kids" game since it is not the Pathfinder game I am currently playing with our kids; Greg's three boys and my two. In both games I am playing very different characters.  A witch in the "little kids" game and a paladin in the "big kids" one.  It is working out well I think.  I have made "mirror" versions of them in 4e and it will be interesting to see how they evolve together, but separate.  Or rather I made the 4e versions first and am now playing the Pathfinder versions.  One day I'll come up with a crossover adventure that involves all four characters in one world.

I still have my D&D 3.x (3.0, 3.5, BESM d20 and other d20 stuff mixed in) that I play with my two sons and we are supposed to get a 4.0/1st Ed cross-over game going sometime too.

That's a lot of D&D.

The cool thing is it gives me a chance to really get a feel for all the versions of D&D.  When my 3.x games ends I have to decide where to take it next.  The choices are continue with the hybrid 3.x game (throwing a bit of Pathfinder in), move up to 4e or even try something "new" like Labyrinth Lord or the D&D RC.

Our Big Kids game is once a month (or so) and the Little Kids game is about the same.  Advancement will be slow, but I am looking forward to it all.

Of Orcus and Generalists

Lots of comments this week.

Orcus vs. Demogorgon
If this were the demonic throwdown then Orcus overwhelms Demogorgon.  Far more comments and hits.  I have to say though a large part of that is because of the Tod Lockwood art.   But even when I have something similar in the past Orcus usually wins too.  I like Demogorgon and think there is tons of untapped horror there and even something that makes him more demon than Orcus.  But Orcus looks like he could be on the cover of an 80's metal album.  Yeah I can see than, some band out of England in the 80's or a Death Metal band out of Norway or Finland today.  Name them Orküs or something like that.  Some one get Raggi on the phone, he would know.

Generalist vs. Specialists
Generalist seems to be the rule of the day here too.  But that is also not a surprise given the population that reads this blog.  I throw out stats for Unisystem, WitchGirls, d20, D&D of all shapes and size. You all must like that stuff.  The Specialists have their own blogs.  There are also seem to be dabblers.  People that are Specialists in one or two systems and fluent in a dozen more.
I still wish though that I had a better name for Generalist.

More later including a "new" game for me...Rifts.

Gen Con Schedule tool.

Thanks to Joethelawyer I have this cool Gen Con webpage/app.

http://gencon.highprogrammer.com/gencon-indy-2010.cgi

Let's you see what is happening and allows me to check on my Ghosts of Albion games.
What I thought was really cool was the ability to send it right to my Google Calendar, which I have connected to my Pre and my work account.  So with a click I now have it all stored and ready to go.

Now to find some games to play.

System Specialist or System Generalist?

So it should come as no surprise that I know a lot of gamers. A lot of a lot.

And while tags like "simulationist" or "immersion" or even "rollplayer vs. roleplayer" get thrown about like they are important, there is one classification that actually interests me.
System Specialist vs. System Generalists.

The System Specialist plays one system only and that is it.  So they only play AD&D 1st ed or d20 or GURPS. This is not to say they have tried other systems.  I am going to bet many have, but they have found one system that they have decided that is all they need.
I like the System Specialist because they usually become experts of their chosen system.  They in a sense achieve in their system that elusive "fade into the background" element that so many designers strive for, whether it was a design principle of that system or not.  Great system specialists seem like elder sages of their system, knowing rules or situations at such a higher level to even surprise the designers.

The System Generalist (wish I had a better name) plays a large number of systems and may have tried even more.  They are comfortable using True20, FUDGE or Rifts in any given situation and they can often give you informed opinions of why X system is perfect for Y situation.  A lot of game designers I know fall under this category.
I like the System Generalist because they are usually able to adapt to newer systems easier and transfer over concepts from one system to the other to improve their own game play.  Game play details are often rendered in short-hand, "oh it is like BLANK from Call of Cthulhu" or "BLANK from Kult".

There are negatives too, but I am not so much interested in those to be honest.

It should not surprise anyone, but I tend to view myself as a System Generalist.  I like having multiple systems laying around, I like reading new ones, playing old ones and even mixing them is strange and odd ways.
I come very, very close to being a System Specialist when it comes to Cinematic Unisystem.   But I still forget some esoteric bit during play, and sometimes even important ones.  For example, for the life of me I can never remember the formula for life points.  I know it is a function of Strength and Constituion.  I know there is addition in there, and some multiplication and 3 and 10 work into it.  I know you 3 extra points per level of Hard to Kill, but that is it.  Pathetic huh?  I have made what, a few hundred characters for CineUnisystem?
The nice thing though outside of that I can run a Cine Unisystem game without books.  If it Ghosts of Albion chances are I don't even need to look up the spells.  I used to be like that for AD&D first ed, but those memories have faded over the years, or more to the point supplanted by similar rules in other versions of the game.

Where do you see yourself?  Generalist or Specialist?  What do you think are the pros of being...well you?

Demogorgon for Unisystem

Demogorgon, Demon Prince of Fiends

And by them stood Orcus and Hades, and the dreaded name of Demogorgon.
- Milton, Paradise Lost.

It is contended by some that this demon prince is supreme. His hatred for Orcus is immense and unending, followed closely by his hatred for Grazzt.
- Gygax, Monster Manual

Demogorgon, The Great Fiend, Prince of Demons.

Note: Like Orcus, some of this information is based on previous works, some of it is based on historical records, and some more is completely made up.

Demogorgon is the Prince of Fiends. He (and it should be noted here and now that he is only used as a convenience, it is possible that Demogorgon is a she or an it or a both or neither, sages simply do not know) is the greatest of their number and is their ruler.

Much mystery surrounds the being known as Demogorgon. His name comes from the late Latin meaning Terrible Demon, but there are claims that he is a Greek chthonian god, or even something far more primal.

What is known is this. Demogorgon is ancient. He was old even in the pre-history of humankind. He has taken upon himself the mantle of The Prince of Demons, though there are very few that can actually challenge him in this role. In addition he is known as The Great Fiend, Lord of the Abyss, and The Great Beast. When the angels fell and took up lordship in Hell, Demogorgon was already there. He (and Orcus) greeted Lucifer and his angels. It is likely that he was kicked out since he now resides in Chesed. It is possible that his wars with Orcus and Belial began here.

Unlike other demonic creatures, Demogorgon is not a fallen angel or god. He has always been a fiend. As he has aged and evolved he has become more demon like. Or, if as speculated, he is the original demon and the fallen angels became more like him. Some occult scholars have even speculated that he might belong to that quasi-mythical group known as Proto-demons, which puts him closer in nature to likes of Pazuzu than Lucifer.

Motivations and Goals

Like most fiend lords, Demogorgon is obsessed with spreading his power. However the Great Fiend has had his share of battles. For example his war with Orcus is legendary and the populations of entire worlds have been spent in this never ending war. There was a time when it seemed Demogorgon had the upper hand, but he has been dealt a number of crushing reversals of late. He and Orcus are once again at a standstill, with Orcus possibly having the upper hand. He is also know for his battles with the Abat-Dolor demons whose leader is Grazzt, and those battles have picked up once again after some time of reduced activity. Grazzt covets Demogorgons title as Prince of Demons, something he sees himself as. Orcus and Demogorgon simply hate each other.
Less well know are his battles with the Fallen Angel/Arch Devil Belial, also known as Beliar. Though that war has been at a standstill for a number of centuries.

But more than anything Demogorgon is about change. He evolves and changes to fit the needs of the times. Some claim this is due to his dual brained nature of his two independent heads, others say it because he has been around for so long he has seen evolution in action and understands it at a level that even the Creator does not comprehend. What ever the case one factor is for certain, in their epoch stretching war Orcus has never gained a major victory despite a never end supply of undead minions. Minor ones yes, but never a major one.  Demogorgon has reigned supreme or at the very least had minor setbacks.

Even among the fiend lords Demogorgon has a peculiar hobby, he has spent millennia breeding different species of man, animal and fiend to produce new races. There seems to be no purpose in this other than the pursuit itself. Nearly every imaginable combinations and abominations can be found roaming free in his realm. Demogorogon has kept Mendelan like records that go back thousands of centuries on his successes, failures, reattempts, all with a methodical meticulousness that makes the handful of scholars that have seen them believe the theory that this is just one, extremely old creature.

Though it is whispered, there is another theory. That Demogorgon is in fact a title and not the Great Fiend's name. That over the wastes of time there have been many Demogorgons, one taking over when the previous one dies, all taking similar form, and maybe even the true essence (and Essence) of the Prince of Demons. This theory could help explain the seeming contradictions in his character. While dismissed by older sages and occultists there is a growing number of younger occult scholars that have embraced this idea and have taken to calling the creature The Demogorogon. There are at least two creatures, both extremely powerful fiends that occult scholars point to as examples. The greater fiends Aameul and Hethradiah (known as his right hand) were known to be powerful lieutenants of Demogorgon that were either killed (and unravelled), absorbed into the Demon Prince, or became The Demogorgon.

Regardless of which interpretation is true, there is no way to know for sure and all contact with Demogorgon is only likely to be with one entity in particular. Unless of course one is present when this theorized transfer of power occurs, and that is only likely if the cast are the main sacrifices or on the menu, or both.

In nearly all cases and examples throughout time, Demogorgon prefers to work through his cults (even if he pits these cults at cross purposes) rather than become directly involved. You wont see full manifestations of The Prince of Demons in the streets of New York either Pre- or Post- Rekoning (WitchCraft).

Appearance

The renowned sage Gygax described the Great Demon thusly, Demogorgon appears as an 18-foot tall reptilian-humanoid. He has two heads that bear the visages of baboons. His blue-green skin is plated with snake-like scales, his body and legs are those of a giant lizard, his twin necks resemble snakes, and his thick tail is forked. In place of arms, he has two huge tentacles.

Demogorgon can change his form at will, depending on his mood. While he will typically appear as described above, he can alter that facade. Changes can be subtle, mandrill or hyena heads for example, or to a more sinuous body like that of a snake rather than a reptile. Demogorgon can also appear human as he wills. His most common guise is that of a tall man of indeterminate age and race (eye witnesses always differ on accounts) with two notable features, his eyes are always yellow tinged with red and he stands before them naked, clothed only in shadow and bald. Scholars speculate that this could be the Dark Man of many Wicce ceremonies (a notion that the Wicce universally deny). Other point out that until knowledge of Demogorgon's war with the demon Grazzt was known that there were no manifestations of Demogorgon beyond the classical fiendish one.

Those encountering the Great Demon report an overwhelming feeling of fear and dread. They describe feeling that they are in the presence of an ancient and alien evil. Those that have communicated with him describe a tumult of voices, of different ages, nationalities, genders, and description, but all cruel and evil. One occult scholar wrote that two voices, male and female, were foremost, but thousands of others could be heard in the background.

The Lair of Demogorgon

Like most fiendish realms, the Lair of Demogorgon is located in the Sephiroth of Chessed. The lair of the Great Fiend resembles an infinite lush topical rainforest full of every manner of life, both mundane and fiendish. Visitors from Malkuth (Earth) are reminded of the primal forests of South America or the jungles of India and Africa. Yet even the terrene dangers of those places are paled with the horrors of the jungles of Demogorgon. Other areas resemble great fetid bogs that stretch for miles and whose depths have never been explored, and great flat deserts of salt where the creatures survive beneath a white-hot sun by drinking the fluids of anything (or anyone) they capture.
Know by some as Abysm, Ungurth Reddik, and to others as The Gapping Maw, it is the home not only to Demogorgon and several thousand lesser fiends, but also to the two primary branches of Demogorgons cult (the third is situated wholly on Earth), many species of primates and reptiles of varying degrees of intelligence, dinosaurs and ancient reptiles, but also to several thousand humans stuck in a tribal state of development. It appears that the humans sole purpose for being here is to provide sport for the cultists of Demon King.

The Cult of Demogorgon

Demogorgon supports three very active (respective to their areas of control) cults. While separate and most time even ignorant of each other, the cults operate in similar fashions and all three, whether known or not, have the same goals; destruction, violence and the promotion of the will of Demogorgon.

The Blood Apes
The largest cult of Demogorgon, is a cult of intelligent Gifted apes. They are often referred to as The Blood Apes due to their habit of bathing in the blood of fallen enemies and comrades. These cultists actively worship Demogorgon as their god and attribute to him all spoils. The doctrines of the cult emphasize destruction and violence. In Apeworlds that feature these cultists they are most often intelligent baboons, mandrills, gibbons and sometimes gorillias. All are carnivores and keep human or (where appropriate) chimpanzee slaves. It is even whispered among the human populations that some humans are kept in an attempt by Demogorons Heirophants to breed true a race that features the most terrible qualities of both ape and man. Others claim they have already succeeded.

The Ophiacodontids
Constantly at war with the Blood Apes are the Ophiacodontids. Each cult believes there are the only true followers of the Great Fiend. The Ophiacodontids might have the edge in shear age, but the Blood Apes outnumber them 20 to 1. The Ophiacodontids are a race of intelligent synapsids that have, over the millennia of a carefully controlled eugenics program have assumed more upright and human-like form.
The Ophiacodontids were the first worshippers of Demogoron, living during the primeval dawn of the Earth during the Permian Period some 250-290 Million years ago. Their astrologers saw the end of the Permian Period that ended in the extinction of close to 90% of all life, a time we now call The Great Dying. The previously cold and scientific race turned to a doomsday religion with Demogorgon as their God. Demogorgon took the Ophiacodontids to his realm and there they continued their epoch long degradation as a species.
Wars between the two cults are a frequent occurrence with the Blood Apes pitting brutal and effective savagery against the Ophiacodontidae calculated cruelty. The only time they do not fight each other is when both tribes hunt humans for food or slave labor.
The symbol of the Ophiacodontids is the Amphisbaena, a great serpent with heads on both ends.

The Humanist Ecological Liberation League
The third and most radical of Demogorgons cultists is a group of Gifted humans living on Earth known as the Human Ecological Liberation League, or HELL. True to their name, they are a radical group of ecological terrorists and even the radical ELF (Earth Liberation Front) has disavowed them. HELL has claimed responsibility in billions of dollars in property damage to developers working in areas they have deemed protected, including the destruction of an off-shore oil rig that was drilling through a coral reef, a lumber company burned to the ground in South America and the destruction of computers used in a Midwestern America coal strip mining firm. They are also believed have been involved in various murders and disappearances of various persons from corporate executives down to a group of factory workers processing wood.
The members are for the most part the sons and daughters of Baby Boomers who instilled the ideas of activism into them, but not the restraint. Many hail from various Associations, with the Wicce being predominant. The various Wicce groups are quick to denounce them and reiterate that methods of HELL are not that of the Wicce. Even the Rosicrucians side with the Wicce on this issue and consider HELL to be the single greatest threat to exposure. Given that HELLs tactics are as subtle as a sledgehammer, both groups also agree that there is no way they could be part of the Combine.
The fact is the members of HELL, despite what they might believe themselves, are not Wicce or Rosicrucians at all, but in fact a cult dedicated to Demogorgon. Demogorgon is known to upper echelon of the cult, but the rank and file do not. The leaders commune with the Great Fiend, who appears to them as the Wicce Dark Man.
The upper ranks believe that Demogorgon represents nature, raw and untouched by man, and that centuries of human dogma has demonized him. They honestly believe they are doing the work of a wronged divine being. HELL is only vaguely aware of the other cults, and those that do believe that they were pre-historic antecedents (which is true) that died out epochs ago (which isnt true).

Demogorgon in Your Games

As with any super-powerful fiend care must be taken about how Game Masters introduce him to their game. The Casts primary contact with the Great Fiend should be through rumor only. The appearance of two headed snakes and frogs are common signs. Dealing with his cult, especially HELL could provide enough for an entire series of episodes. The cast can get to the top of a local HELL cell, only to discover that there is much more and all of it is controlled by a fiend that very few legends even mention.

Roleplaying Demogorgon versus The Demogorgon
Demogorgon has the potential of being the most ancient, powerful and dangerous entity the characters or the players have ever encountered. If He has been around since the Permian times that would equate to 240 to 290 Million Years, that is at least 2.4 to 2.9 Million levels of Age. Even if he was down for more than half that time (say he was only active when there were active worshipers) that is still about 40 million extra skill points! Obviously he cant have that much. But there are still problems with dealing with such an ancient, alien creature. One option is to cut him down to size.
Explore the possibility that Demogorgon is in fact a title given to most powerful fiend in existence. When that fiend is killed, or dies for whatever reason, a new Demogorgon is appointed. This would be the biggest secret in all the infernal realms, and quite an adventure for the Cast that discovers it. Maybe the current Demogorgon is ancient and a new fiend has challenged him to rule over all the fiends. A fight ensues and the younger fiend emerges victorious! Only to be subjected to a painful transformation where he becomes the new Demogorgon. Maybe Orcus did defeat Demogorgon once, only to be transformed to the new one.
Another possibility for adventure is a current demon adversary manages to learn the secret and becomes, through duplicity, the new Demogorgon. Now the cast is really in trouble.

WitchCraft
Demogorgon has been pulling in races from as far back as the Permian times from the continent of Pangaea. One could only imagine the knowledge he has collected from Lemuria, Atlantis, Hyborea or other long lost lands of occult wisdom. Imagine the surprise of your Immortal Templar when a creature looking like a cross between a toad and a monkey appears and starts talking about the flying mind ships of his ancestors. It is quite certain that Demogorgon has in his possession knowledge of the Greater Keys of Solomon. And his interactions with the Wicce and Rosecrucians have already been noted.
It is also during this time that HELL is most active.
Demogorgon, when he rarely ventures to Earth, can remain for 16 days.

Armageddon
Demogorgon is of a mind to take advantage of the situation and unleash new hells on the Earth. Most associations would disdain contact with him, even those aligned with the Infernal Realms. While mostly low-profile during the pre-Reckoning, Demogorgon sees the post-Reckoning world as the means to gain control. While not stopping the Cult of Leviathan, he is not working with them either.
In the Post-Reckoning Demogorgon can remain in the mortal world for 80 days at a time.

AFMBE (D&Z)/Terra Primate/Army of Darkness
Demogorgons lair itself, despite its supernatural placement, can be used as a fantastic Ape / Dead World. Follow the Lost Continent example from Terra Primeate (after all what continent is more lost than Pangaea?) Humans, intelligent apes, even some intelligent bipedal reptiles can be created here in their daily struggle for life, not against the forces of darkness, but from within the heart of darkness itself. Travelling to the lair is the kind of stuff that makes legends out of characters in Dungeons & Zombies (remember Queen of the Demonweb Pits?) and Army of Darkness.

Ghosts of Albion (and other CineUnisystem games)
Scientific thought is embracing the world. Industry is growing and the world is shrinking. The gap between those that have and those that have not has never been more profound. Sounds ripe for fiendish influence. To date Demogorgon has shown no interest in Ablion (or Alba or Éire for that matter either), but the defeat of Balberith has sent a ripple through the supernatural world and now everyone's attention is on the tiny isle of Albion. After all two-siblings, barely adults even by human standards, defeated one of Lucifer's most powerful lieutenants, they cant be lucky all the time.

Unisystem Stats

Demogorgon

Other names: The Great Fiend, The Demon Prince, Lord of the Brine Flats, Lord of the Gapping Maw, The Demon King.
Type: Greater Fiend (Demon)
*Though a Fiend, Demogorgons nature is closer to demonic.

Attributes
Strength: 18
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 12
Perception: 18
Willpower: 16

Secondary Attributes
Endurance: 340
Speed: 58
Armor: 28

Essence: 228
Vital Essence: 456
Channelling level: 9

Life Points (when Manifested): 430

Qualities
Acute Senses (all)
Age +40* (best estimate)
Ambidextrous
Charisma +4
Essence Channelling +9
Hard to Kill +20
Increased Essence Pool +13 (+65 Essence Points)
Increased Life Points +12 (+120 LP)
Natural Toughness
Nerves of Steel +4
Greater Fiend
Supernatural Senses (including see Invisible)

Drawbacks
Adversary (lots, powers of good and evil) 10
Attractiveness 2
Covetous, Greedy 3
Cruel 3
Delusions of Grandeur -3
Obsession, genetic experimentation 4
Paranoia 4
Taint Vulnerability
Zealot

Skills
Languages (all) +10
Theophany skill
Brawling +18
Bureaucracy +12
Cheating +9
Craft, Weapons +12
Craft, ritual items +10
Dodge +10
Hand weapons, sword +16
Hand weapons, others +10
Magic Theory +16
Magic bolts +15
Myths & Legends, Greek +16
Myths & Legends, Pre-historic +16
Notice +16
Occult Knowledge +18
Questioning +14
Rituals (Wicce, Rosicrucian) +15

All other skills at +5

Metaphysics
Bad Luck 9
Destroyer 8 Destruction
Dark Vision
Essence Drain Demogorgon can drain 10 points of Essence per touch.
Essence Shieldings
Gaze Attacks
- Beguiling (left head), victim must make contested Willpower check to avoid catatonic stupor for number of turns equal to the difference in Willpowers.
- Hypnosis (right head), victim must make contested Willpower check to avoid following Demogorons wishes for number of turns equal to the difference in Willpowers.
- Insanity (both heads together), victim must make a contested Willpower check or go insane.
Regeneration Regenerates his current CON in LP per minute. Drained Essence can be added to Life Points or Essence (Vital or Pool).

Rotting Touch - Any living creature touched by Demogorgons tentacles must make a Constitution (doubled) check, or its flesh and bones begin to rot. The victim takes 1d4(2) points of Constitution damage immediately and 1 point of Constitution damage every hour thereafter until it dies. Any healing invocation will halt the damage, but lost points return only with natural healing and cannot be restored with magic.

Keys of Solomon
As the Prince of Demons Demogoron also has access to the Keys of King Solomon.
He will typically use the following:
Key of the Seraphim* (can only use it on demons)
Key of the Spirit (can only use it on fiends)
Key of War

Combat
Melee, bite, 2 attacks, bonus: +33, damage d4(2)x16, poison
Bite Poison strength rating 6, damage 2d6(6)+6.
Melee, tentacles, 2 attacks, bonus: +33, damage: d6(3)x18, Essence Drain, Rotting.
Melee, tail, 1 attack, bonus: +31, damage d6(3)x19, Essence Drain.

Demogorgon can summon 4-24 fiends to aid him. These fiends regard him has their lord and will obey him without question.
He can also summon up to a dozen lesser demons and fiends to aid him. These demons and fiends are less loyal, and will flee if the fight is going against them.


Blood Apes

Strength: 5-6
Dexterity: 3-4
Constitution: 5-7
Intelligence: 3-4
Perception: 3
Willpower: 3

Essence: 22-27
Life Points: 56-68

Qualities: Gift, Hard to Kill 2

Skills: Brawling 5, Handweapon (sword) 3

Metaphysics: Invocations

Blood Apes appear as any intelligent ape type found in Terra Primate, save that these creatures also wield magics. Most are Lesser Gifted, with a few tribal leaders as Gifted. Mundanes, if sufficiently brutal in other forms of life are allowed to live.

Ophiacodontids

Strength: 4
Dexterity: 3-5
Constitution: 3-4
Intelligence: 4-7
Perception: 4
Willpower: 6

Essence: 24-30
Life Points: 41-45

Qualities: Gift, Hard to Kill

Skills: Brawling 3, Handweapon (sword) 4

Metaphysics: Seer powers

Opiacodontids are a race of bipedal synapsids that have evolved under Demogorgons guidance. They consider the Great Demon to be their god. They do not differ much in terms of physical size and strength from humans. They tend to be a bit smarter on the average and have stronger wills.
Opiacodontids also posses Seer/Psychic powers with the vast majority Lesser Gifted and an elite minority Gifted. Mundane creatures are killed at birth.

Sanity Loss...