Fantasy Fridays and Other Features

 I made a few new choices about some of the features here on Ye Ole' Other Side blog today. Well...I have been planning these for a bit, but this morning over what has appeared to be one too many cups of coffee the ideas finally jelled.

I have been calling 2025 The Year of Fantasy RPGs, and this is going to continue. One of the ideas I had for this year was to do the April A to Z of Fantasy RPGs. I have a bunch ready to go, but only three written. To provide a full and proper review for a post like what I want takes a lot of reading and about a week's worth of writing here and there. So, it's not really something I want to cram into a month for 26 different games.

My goal was also to find games people could play that could, in a sense, replace D&D on their tables for a bit. Like I have said, I love D&D, and I likely always will, but there are a lot of games out there that are equally deserving of our attention. I can't do that in the way I want by only focusing on a bunch of games for a month.

Also, I have, for a while now, been pretty sour on the idea of supporting others' Kickstarters with my "Kickstart Your Weekend" feature. I mean honestly to be rather blunt about it. I spent a lot of time letting people know about Kickstarters, only to watch the ones I was part of creating not hit the levels I wanted. Selfish? Maybe. Pissy? Certainly. But I have to support the home team more. Yeah, I am still reviewing other people's games, but that feels different to me. 

All these combined have led me to my new feature, Fantasy Fridays. Each Friday over the rest of this year I will try to cover a Fantasy RPG in detail. I love reading these and making new characters so this could be a lot of fun. I would allow myself a little more flexibility regarding "fantasy" too. In June, I like to talk about Sci-Fi games, so this would be perfect for a Sci-Fi Fantasy game. I have a few others that are not 100% pure fantasy, but still would work fine.

I am still trying to clean up and publish all these works in progress I have collected over the years, so that will also continue (new one on Monday!). 

Witchcraft Wednesday: Larina Nix and Skylla for Lands of Adventure

A while back I picked up the classic RPG, Lands of Adventure. While it is fair to say the game is not great, there is something about it I can't quite put my finger on that I love. Is it the  Bill Willingham art? Is it Lee Gold's attention to historical detail, even when the details are wrong? Ok, to be fair, some these details may not have been "wrong" when she was writing. But she is certainly good at building an interesting world.

No. I don't know what it is, but given this is my year to try out more (and different) fantasy RPGs, I owe it at least to myself to try this game out.  It will not replace *D&D on anyone's table today. But for a moment, let me pretend it is 1983. I'll put on K-Tel's CHART ACTION '83 and work on some characters!

Character Creation

This is the most tedious process of this game, really. The rules for playing are largely pretty simple. However, I do admit that I am really in the mood for a complicated character-creation process today. 

For this I'll start with the Lands of Adventure core rules and make adaptations based on the Culture Packs I have. I will do my two favorite witches, Larina and Skylla, for Medieval England and Ancient Greece, respectively. If I had had the other proposed Culture Packs I would have tried something for them as well. 

The game has 11 (yes, eleven) primary stats, but of those, only four are purely random. The others are often the averages of the others with some more randomness added in.  You can roll the d20 or d10 as needed, OR you can allocate 110 + 2d10 points among the 11 characteristics. 

The minimum score is 1, and the max is 20. 

Piety is also important and has it's own means of calculation, but to get that, I'll need some skills for the characters. Skills can also increase other stats.

This game also has three different "Hit Point" pools; Energy Points (EP), Body Points (BP), and Life Points (LP). Damage affects them differently, but none should be 0.

Skills are a roll-under mechanic of percentages, with 5% (96-00) always as a fumble. To roll 10% under your skill is a maximum or flawless success. There are 10 Skill categories and their base scores are based on a Major Characteristic and Minor Characteristics. So for example MAG (Magic) is TAL (Talent)/2 and then squared + INT (Intelligence).  Unlike some games, height and weight have mechanical effects on how fast you can move and how much you can carry respectively.

You have as many skills as you do PRU, the max you can have in any skill area at the start of the game is 10% of the skill area score. Given that this are also not starting characters I will use the options for Prior Experience Points to buff up some skills and spells.

Spells are an odd mix to be honest. I am not sure what would be right to choose since I am not 100% certain of all the game effects. But I can say that the magic section does feel like it is bolted onto this system and there are bits of game-design bondo and duct-tape holding it together. Not that this can't be fun, AD&D did it for decades. 

For Larina and Skylla here, I am certainly aiming to give them a witch-like background. Turns out that is pretty easy to do with this game. The Ancient Greece Culture Pack has the Pelasgians who are characterized as worshipping a Maiden-Mother-Crone Moon Goddess from the belief that older civilizations were more Matriarchal than Patriarchal. Following in the same logic, or even from the same logic, in the Medieval England Culture Pack, Gold lists Margaret Murray's now discredited "The Witch-Cult in Western Europe" as part of the suggested reading. I say "discredited," but I still use the central thesis in my own game writing for my books. Hey. I am writing about witches, not an academic anthropological treatise.  Though given Gold's inclusion of Murray, I would also have gone with Jane Harrison for Ancient Greece and Jessie Weston for Medieval England for a trifecta of Late Victorian/Early 20th Century independent women scholars.

Makes my choice of witches to stat up for this game even more appropriate. 

Larina Nix

Species: Human
Gender: Female
Height: 5'4"
Weight: 125 lbs (light frame)

Culture/Religion: Medieval England/The Old Faith
Piety: 6

CRF (Craft): 12            DEX (Dexterity): 12
TAL (Talent): 18          VCE (Voice): 19
INT (Intelligence): 16  PRU (Prudence): 14
APP (Appearance): 18 AGY (Agility): 12
STR (Strength): 10       CON (Constitution): 10
CHA (Charisma): 19   

COM (Communication): 52%
KNW (Knowledge): 44%
MAG (Magic): 97%
MAN (Manipulation): 32%
MIR (Miracle Working): 99%
MOV (Movement): 28%
OBS (Observation): 36%
PER (Persuasion): 55%
Melee: 16%
Missile 26%

Local KNW: 144%
General KNW: 84%

Non-Combat Specialized Skills
Reporting Accurately (Com), Legend Lore (Knw), Medical/Herb Lore (Knw), Astronomy/Astrology (Knw), Languages Speak (Knw) (English, French, Celtic)

Specialized Spell Skills
Stop Behaviors (Compulsion) PL 5, 10x10, 5 rounds, 1, 200 ft.
Energy Shield (Energy) PL 3, 10x10, 5 rounds, 1, 10 ft.
Energy Bolt (Energy) PL 4, 10x10, 1 round, 1, 200 ft.
Enchantment (Enchantment) PL 6, 10x10, 30 min, 1, 10 ft.
Darkness (Illusion) PL 5, 30x30, 5 rounds, 1, 10 ft.

EP: 36
BP: 12
LP: 10

Weapons: Dagger, Staff

Armor: None
Shield: None

Free Load: 60lbs

--

Skylla

Species: Human
Gender: Female
Height: 5'4"
Weight: 130 lbs (average frame)

Culture/Religion: Ancient Greece/Moon Mother
Piety: 4

CRF (Craft): 12            DEX (Dexterity): 11
TAL (Talent): 16          VCE (Voice): 14
INT (Intelligence): 14  PRU (Prudence): 10
APP (Appearance): 14 AGY (Agility): 12
STR (Strength): 9        CON (Constitution): 10
CHA (Charisma): 17   

COM (Communication): 37%
KNW (Knowledge): 34%
MAG (Magic): 78%
MAN (Manipulation): 29%
MIR (Miracle Working): 80%
MOV (Movement): 23%
OBS (Observation): 36%
PER (Persuasion): 42%
Melee: 22%
Missile 24%

Local KNW: 134%
General KNW: 74%

Non-Combat Specialized Skills
Lying (Com), Legend Lore (Knw), Medical/Herb Lore (Knw) x2, Astronomy/Astrology (Knw), Languages Speak (Knw) (Greek, Egyptian)

Specialized Spell Skills
Stop Behaviors (Compulsion) PL 5, 10x10, 5 rounds, 1, 200 ft.
Energy Bolt (Energy) PL 4, 10x10, 1 round, 1, 200 ft.
Enchantment (Enchantment) PL 6, 10x10, 30 min, 1, 10 ft.

EP: 31
BP: 13
LP: 10

Weapons: Dagger, Staff

Armor: None
Shield: None

Free Load: 65lbs

--

Ok. There is a lot here and even more that I didn't do. These are better than starting characters, certainly, but not 100% reflective of stats for them I have posted in the past. For the Point Allocation method, Larina has 160 points (30 above max) and Skylla has 137 points (7 above max). 

Magic is an odd affair, mostly using the "Spells on the fly" method. I could explore it more IF I ever choose to play this game. But I have enough here for now.

A few interesting quirks. The Culture Packs give a lot more detail to the characters, BUT you should have them next to you when you develop the characters. Skylla, for example, ended up having the Goddess Athena in her maternal line and thus added to some of her stats. Not sure how a virgin goddess was able to do that, but ok. Skylla gained an extra Herbalism skill as well. Larina had a mystical encounter. Since I was recently re-reading her 4th Edition D&D stats, I am going to say she saw a unicorn when she was a little girl. 

This game is rich in atmosphere, but the system itself leaves a little to be desired. Maybe I am just used to simpler systems now or unified mechanics. I do admit I am still very happy I have this game and I will likely come back to it. 

Mail Call: Monty Python's Cocurricular Mediaeval Reenactment Programme

 I almost forgot I had backed this! But this came in the mail yesterday.

I got the Public School Edition because, as always, I am a sucker for a book with a ribbon bookmark.

It came with a lot of stuff.

A lovely bunch of coconuts. But we already had our own!

There is so much here. I have no idea if I'll play this or not, but it is a very silly game.

I know my oldest is going to love it.

Monstrous Mondays: DMGR4 Monster Mythology (2e)

 I want to pick back up my reviews of my collection of Forgotten Realms books, I also want to keep up my exploration of various monsters that have appeared in past versions of the *D&D game. With the lack of "playable humanoids" in the current Monster Manual, I returned to my collection and found a book that fits my needs.  While this means I am skipping over a couple of books in my chronological order, they are all connected to each other, so I can justify it. 

Of note, this is another book I obtained from the Grenda collection. So that is also a good reason to feature it. It can also stand-in as an entry to my "One Man's God" series. 

DMGR4 Monster Mythology (2e)

1992, by Carl Sargent. Art by John Lakey, Laura Lakey, Keith Parkinson, Terry Dykstra. Softcover, blue&white and full color art. 128 Pages.

This book was the fourth in the DMGR, or Dungeon Master's Guide Rules, series for AD&D 2nd edition. I did not purchase many of these when they were new. At this point, most, if not all, of my gaming money went to Ravenloft-themed products. 

This book covers, not monsters really, but their gods, demigods, and heroes. The format is simialr to that of new Legends & Lore book for 2nd Edition, and it would be a prequel of sorts to various Forgotten Realms "Faiths & Avatars" books, with Demihuman Deities being its direct descendant. 

Now to be fair, Monster Mythology is not a Realms book per se. A lot of what goes on in this book will later get adopted to the Realms. Author Carl Sargent, also know for his Greyhawk From the Ashes boxed set, makes many mentions of various Greyhawk secific gods. It seems that he felt these two products would work together. And they do, quite well in fact, but the Forgotten Realms are also explicitly mentioned. 

What does this book actually have in it?

There are gods for the Elves (including sea elves), Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings, specifically for the Forgotten Realms, though we have seen these before in one form or another. There are "Goblinoid Deities" of the orcs, goblins, bugbears, kobolds, and others.  

There are the Gods of the Underdark: For Drow, Underdark Dwarves, Illithids, Beholders, Myconids, and Deep Gnomes. 

Gods for the Giants, for other monsters, and many more are also mentioned. This includes the Elder Elemental God, aka the Elder Elemental Eye. This book does nothin to clear up that confusion, but that is fine. I like my gods messy. Case in point, the Demon Lord Juiblex is listed as a Lesser God here. Indeed, one man's god is another man's demon.

In addition to Juiblex, other demons are mentioned and get deity-level treatment. This includes Demogogn, Yeenoghu, Kostchtchie, Baphomet, and Lolth (naturally). Additionally, other "monsters" get god-like treatments, such as Bahamut and Tiamat. 

Vampires, liches, and even hags get gods. Though I am not sure I'd ever use them as gods and more as "powerful examples" of each type. 

It is an interesting mix, especially rereading it with 2025 eyes. Some gods were ported over from the various Gods of the Demihumans articles from Dragon magazine, and others from previous Realms-based books and earlier as well. The Underdark gets more detail. It's no surprise; the early 1990s were all about the Underdark and Drow in particular.

All gods get mentions of their Specialty Priests. So in general, this book has more value to the game than does the Legends & Lore book proper. 

A couple of thoughts, though, of my own.

I'm not sure what happens with the gods of the Kobolds as they became less "goblin" and more "dragon."  I am likely to say that these gods were once powerful kobold heroes that fell into a sort of ancestor worship. 

I also can't see the Illithids or the Beholders having gods. For the Illithids, I say that their two gods, Ilsensine and Maanzecorian, are not real beings but rather constructs of the Illithid shared mindscape, something akin to a Tulpa. The beholders, on the other hand, have their "Great Mother," who I say is not so much a divine figure, but actually the mother of all beholders. So in a way she is more akin to Vlaakith of the Githyanki. 

The book is flexible enough to be used in any campaign setting, and it mentions just about every campaign setting from that time. 

While the book has been superseded by newer AD&D 2nd Ed books in the Forgotten Realms and by shifts in the pantheons in different editions, this is still a solid book.

The details on specialty priests alone makes it worthwhile.  

This Old Dragon: Issue #176

 Time once again to dip into the box of old Dragon Magazines under my desk. Today's magazine takes us back to December 1991. AD&D 2nd Edition is the new kid on the block, but there are still AD&D 1st ed holdovers. Hook and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country are ruling the box office. In the US Michael Jackson's "Black or White" knocks out the superior (in my opinion) "Set Adrift on Memory Bliss" by P.M. Dawn. And on the magazine racks and shelves is Issue #176 of This Old Dragon.

As was common in the 1990s, this is a "feature" issue, and this month's feature was elves. Always a winner, to be honest. The cover art featuring elves fighting a group of goblins and gnolls, comes to us via Lissanne Lake. She would go on to do work for White Wolf and the Affliction: Salem 1692 game. 

The cover also tells me there is a Giant poster inside. But my issue doesn't have that. Neither does my Dragon DC-ROMs. A search reveals it to be a poster of the cover of Dragon #166.

Open to an ad for GDW's Dark Conspiracy. Nice to still see ads for other companies and games here. There is also an ad for "The NEW Easy to Master" Dungeons & Dragons Basic boxed set.  I covered this set a while back and it is fun.

Letters covers the concerns over the lack of a proper African campaign setting or myths in D&D, which  the new Egyptian art in the AD&D 2nd Ed Legends and Lore getting a particular call out. 

Is that Isis or Freya?

Dragon responds back with various excuses where a "Yeah, you are right, we should do better" would have been enough. 

Roger Moore's Editorial touches on this in a way. Providing some forward-thinking on how we should deal with people who are different from us, be that other ethnicities or other species (in D&D and ShadowRun terms). He does point to Star Trek the Next Generation as an example. 

More ads. Which, and lets be honest, are as fun as the articles. In this one for Waldenbooks (pour one out all you Otherworlds and Preferred Reader members out there!) and has some new D&D books on the way. One if the Ravenloft Van Richten's Guide to Vampires...and Other Undead. Ok so the content and cover changed from this to publication. Not the first time we have seen this. Nor the last.

We now get into our featured section on the Elves.

Servants of the Seldarine by Chris Perry covers and updates what we know about the gods and goddess of the Elves (and Drow) to AD&D 2nd Edition, with a bit of a lean in to the Forgotten Realms. I also have Monster Mythology sitting here on my desk for my next foray into the Realms, along with The Drow of the Underdark, so this is timely. This article predates Monster Mythology. While the information here for elven specialty priests will be superseded by newer books, the information is great to have and I'll add it to my cache of random Realms lore. 

If You Need Help - Ask the Drow! from Ed Greenwood and Steven E. Schend also adds more to the total of Realms lore. This time, obviously, about the Drow. This article also ties in with FOR2 The Drwo of the Underdark. There is a map of the Promenade of Elistraee, the "good" Drow Goddess and covers her specialty priests in more detail. 

And that appears to be it for the elves special feature. 

Forum covers some of the topics of the day, as usual, mostly related to past issues. The topic de jour deals with "psycho-pathic players" from issue #172's Forum. I am unsure if the authors' mean "players" or "characters."  The examples do lean in on characters, but the players have something to do with it. No advice is given really. 

Friend of the Other Side Bruce Heard is up with his Voyage of the Princess Ark, now up to Part 23. If you love Mystara/The Known World as much as I do then these are great reads. Nothing sets the tone for the BECMI line quite as well as these do. There is fiction here, but enough playable crunch to keep me coming back for more. 

The Convention Calendar gives us the run-down on the latest gaming conventions of the Winter of 91-92. None local to me though.

Ad for Vampire the Masquerade. Wonder if it will do well?

Spike Y. Jones has advice for "dressing up" your modern games in Propping Up Your Campaign. Though I can't see any GM wearing a suit and tie to a game session. Though there is some fun advice here. Among the things it suggests is raiding your little brother's toy box (with permission). A whiel back we did a huge cleaning and took a bunch of old toys from when the kids were little to WINGS. We kept anything that might be good for D&D props like toy dinosaurs and even some weird knock-off Pokemon and Yugioh toys we bought on a trip to Chicago's China Town. 

TSR Previews covers what is new for December 1991 and January 1992. Your mail-in registration for Gen Con 1992 is on the next page. Early bird entries much be post marked by January 31, 1992. 

The Lessers (Hartley, Patricia and Kirk) are back in The Role of Computers. Games covered are Heart of China (5 stars), J.B. Harlod Murder Club (4 stars), Phantasy Star III (4 stars), A-10 Tank Killer (5 stars), and Space Quest IIII (4 stars). 

Michael G. Ryan gives us this month's fiction piece, Time for an Experiment. 

Doug Niles is up with Role-Playing Reviews. He covers The Awful Green Things from Outer Space by Tom Wham and from Steven Jackson Games. This is an update of the same game that appeared in the pages of Dragon #28 all the way back in 1979. Niles still loves it. The Scotland Yard game from Ravensburger (German company fairly well known for their puzzles today) is a "whodunit" game where the players track down "Mr. X." It honestly sounds fun. He also covers the Battle of the Bulge game from who else, Avalon Hill. 

Marvel-Phile is up with lesser known characters like La Bandera, Windshear, and Witchfire. Ok, so I did already know Witchfire.

Ah. I knew thos toys we saved would come in handy! Gregory W. Detwiler gives us prehistoric beasts in Playing in the Paleozoic. These are AD&D 2nd Ed monster stats, but not the full monster listings with Combat and Habitat/Ecology sections. Still. We went to the Field Museum and the Illinois State Museum more times than I can recall. So we have tons of plastic prehistoric monsters here. This one is fun!

Skip Williams is up with Sage Advice. This time, covering the effects of various wizard spells. 

Not a review, not an ad, but somewhere in between is Novel Ideas by Marlys Heeszel. This time we cover the new R. A. Salvatore novel Canticle.

David Wise updates us on the AD&D Collector Cards in The Game Wizards. 

DragonMirth has our comics for the month including Yamara and Twilight Empire. 

Gamers Guide has our small ads. Ads for play-by-mail games (those will soon die out), music tracks for your games on cassette. Wargames West has their ad. A couple of ads look like they were printed out on a Macintosh pritner. Sign of the times. 

We end with Robert Bigelow's reviews of new minis in Through the Looking Glass. At the time of this issue I had maybe one or two minis I had saved up for. I read this ad now on a desk covered in all the minis I have been printing from our 3D printer. Currently all the lords of the Hels and then some are sitting here waiting for a coat of primer. 

So. A fun issue really, but the "special feature" was a little weak even if the articles themselves were pretty good. Loved the Paleozoic monsters the most really. 

Review: The Forgotten Realms Atlas

 Last month I presented a few characters from Grenda's collection of Forgotten Realms material. It got me thinking I needed to continue my exploration of the Realms.  Among the books in his collection is the amazing The Forgotten Realms Atlas. Under normal circumstances at this point in my exploration of a new world I would go right to a publication like this. The fact that it is the next book in chronological order and it was part of my friend's collection makes it an even better choice. 

The Forgotten Realms Atlas (2e)

1990. By Karen Wynn Fonstad. Forewords by Ed Greenwood and Jeff Grubb. 178 pages.

Before I get into this book, I have a few words about Karen Wynn Fonstad. She is not a name usually associated with the Realms, but she is a "name." Prior to this book, she had given us the equally extensive Atlas of the Dragonlance World. She came to these via her work on The Atlas of Middle-Earth, The Atlas of Pern, and the Atlas of The Land from "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant." All epic works of cartography and staples of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Book Club during the 1980s.  All her books have a similar feel to them, and all are meticulously well-researched. She had been the Director of Cartographic Services at the University of Wisconsin–Oshkosh and had fallen in love with Tolkien's world back in 1975.  I don't know if she felt the same love for Toril, Krynn or Pern, but her work in all three was top-notch. She passed in 2005 at the young age of 59. She was remembered fondly in the New York Times this past January, nearly 20 years after her death.

The Atlas itself is a massive work. The book itself is 178 pages, with 3-color art. The only illustrations in the book are Fonstad's maps and there is nearly a map per page. These are not just geographical maps of places, there are maps of towns, homes, castles, even standing stones on the Moonshae islands. Everything is footnoted and cross referenced. 

It covers all the Forgotten Realms products, novels and RPG sources, up that point. So it is pretty comprehensive. 

The atlas is divided into four major sections.

Part One: Regions

This covers the large regions of the known world of the Forgotten Realms circa 1990. It includes large area maps of the Western Realms (most familiar) north and south, the Hordelands, and the Eastern Realms where Kara-Tur had been newly re-set. 

Part Two: The Moonshae Isles

This covers the Moonshaes and the places (and events) of the Darkwater Trilogy novels. I should probably read those at some point. The level of detail here is rather amazing, to be honest, and you do get the feel that this is a living, breathing world. 

Part Three: The North and West

Again, the areas most familiar even to the most casual Realms fan. Though, while I admit that now I am likely more than a casual fan, the amount of detail here is staggering to me. There is so much I don't know here. Reading it makes me feel like I have missed a lot since there are many references to the novels. I know I am never going to ever read everything Forgotten Realms, but this does make me appreciate the in-world and real-world history here.

Part Four: The Western Heartlands

This is the bulk of the book and is just packed. Here, I am further outside of the areas I know. Hell, even the areas I know I know I don't know well. But I think I am going to come back to this book very often.

Honestly. This book is a treasure. I had flipped through a copy of Fonstad's Atlas of Middle of Earth years ago and was blown away by it. I have the same feeling here. It is almost too much to take in at once.

Her References alone would be the basis of a great adventure, academically speaking, to read up on the Realms from 35 years ago. It is more than I could ever hope to read and still manage to get all my other reading in! But it also gives me ideas of other products to review, beyond what I already have. 

 

Orcs and Drow, Klingons and Romulans

Today is the release day of the new D&D 5.5 Monster Manual. It does not have "monster stats" for orcs or drow (nor elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and other playable species). In general, I am okay with this. I can add my own if I want. But the treatment of orcs, in general, seems to have some people bothered. My post on Nouveau Orcs has been constantly in my weekly top five posts since I posted it back in July. It also seems the most noise is coming from a section of gamers who have also bragged about how they have not played any D&D published in the last 10 or 25 years.

Frankly, we are still on the same road that Gygax put us on.

Drow and Romulans

I have mentioned that my wife and I are rewatching all the episodes of every series of Star Trek. Right now (tonight even) we are going to rewatch the classic "The Balance of Terror."  The first time since we rewatched it's alternate-timeline counterpart, "A Quality of Mercy."

The Balance of Terror changed Star Trek forever. We see its effects in the "Reunification" trilogy of episodes, its effects on Star Trek The Next Generation, Star Trek Picard, and Dungeons & Dragons.

I have mentioned it many times here before, but the introduction of the Drow as "Evil (with a capital E) Elves" was a parallel to the Romulans as Evil Vulcans in Trek. It was obvious to me back in the early 1980s when I first played through it, but sadly, that plot point was spoiled for me. I don't know the effect either the D-Series adventures or The Balance of Terror had on those unaware.  Since then, Drow and Romulans have followed a similar development path. 

Both of our pointy-eared races have begun to be more like their good-aligned cousins since their mutual rediscoveries. Relations with the Romulans were beginning to get better even in the time of the Next Generation and practically friendly in Picard to allies in the later seasons of Discovery. Same is largely true for the Drow, save we have not hit the friendly part yet.

I would add that the same relationship and development cycle has become true for Orcs and Klingons.

Orcs and Klingons

When the Next Generation was in the idea stages, creator Gene Roddenberry originally did not want any Klingons in it. The rumor is that the fall of the Soviet Union, the "Evil Empire" of so many decades, prompted him to change his mind and see Klingons as becoming part of the Federation. Good thing too. Klingon episodes were always some of the most interesting ones in the franchise. 

Orcs are taking a similar role to Klingons. Granted, while there are individual good, even heroic, orcs, none have stood out yet like Worf Son of Mogh or Drizzt Do'Urden. But this is the early days of orcs now being a part of our Dungeons & Dragons "Federation."

Personally, I have stopped using orcs as pure antagonists for a long time. I almost always got for undead, demons, or evil cultists of any humanoid sort. Does this mean orcs are off the menu? No more than Klingons were. It is amazing for allies how many battles between the Federation and Klingons we saw not just in The Next Generation, but also Deep Space Nine and Voyager. Discovery even began with a fight with the Klingons that started the Federation-Klingon war.

So really. Maybe it is time to shift away from orcs as always evil. They can still be warlike and brutal, but giving them a little more credit can only make them more interesting. Take Orkworld, for example. John Wick was doing what D&D is trying to do now, 25 years ago. 

Games should evolve. Otherwise, you are just doing the same old thing all the time. And if I choose to say have orcs and drow and whatever as antagonists again? Well. I can still do that.

But maybe, just maybe it is time to see what orcs can add to the game as a culture.