The mountains and the canyons started to tremble and shake
as the children of the sun began to awake.
It's not easy pulling off a large mono-theistic religion in a FRPG, especially one where the world not only has a lot of pantheons, but also where all these goods are assumed to be real.
Fortunately there are plenty of examples from the real world. Especially in the Christ-like figure of Mithra or Mitra and the similar Sol Invictus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_mysteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81ine
I think a god like Mithra would be interesting in D&D.
The Church of Sol Invictus
In my Mystoerth world the Church of Sol Invictus seeks to unite the faiths of the world under the banner of one Sun God. They have a lot of influence in the temples of Pholtus, Pelor, St. Cthubert and Ixion. There are many similarities to this faith and the one of Taiia in 3rd Edition.
Proponents of Sol Invictus believe that their god is the only true god and all others are false gods or even worse elevated demons or mortals.
But the Church of Sol Invictus has a number of other, deeper secrets.
In addition to only recognizing the sun gods of various faiths as the only true god, they believe that these gods are really only aspects of a much greater god.
The high priests and the leader of the faith, known as "His Brilliance", feel that these aspects are in fact aspects of the god known as "He Who Was".
He Who Was was an ancient powerful god whose chief lieutenant was Asmodeus. At the behest of Tharizdun, Asmodeus tricked and betrayed this god. He was ambushed by Orcus, Demogorgon and a third demon whose name has been erased. He Who Was managed to kill this other demon and even split Demogorgon into two. Demogorgon later regenerated into his current form, each half of his head regenerating in to two complete heads. Orcus killed He Who Was and in a further act of desecration used his skull and spine as the the great Wand of Orcus.
The clergy of Sol Invictus believe then that by combining these aspects of the Sun God and destroying Orcus forever they can have their god reborn. They believe that this rebirth will make their god more powerful than he ever was.
In my larger world St. Aleena was also a follower of this philosophy and the Church of Law and Order in City of Dolmvay is just another aspect of this faith.
The major foes of this Church are followers of Orcus and pretty much any demonic cult. Also feared and mistrusted are the faiths that follow the Moon.
The Church of Sol Invictus are among the main witch-hunters in my world.
I am planning to work elements of this church into my current game, but not sure how much detail the players are actually going to get. The use a word my wife hates, I am going to let it grow "organically".
Some of this organic growth began when I first started pulling all this together for 4e. It was building the 4e version of Aleena that got this idea rolling again. I guess this is one of the reasons I have not let go of my 4e books. A lot of the fluff is still compatible with what I am doing in 5e.
Not everything is figured out though.
Given that I grew up in the 70s I would love to add some more left-over hippy shit to it all. I would love to add something like 12 houses to the faith, something along the lines of orders. Or 7 orders and break them down by color. The 7 orders actually fits better with some other things I had done in the past. Each order representing a different aspect of the faith. I had already figured out Red (Military might) and Blue (Knowledge/learning). It should not be too hard to come up with something else. Obviously Green could be related to growing things. Violet could be Guidance. Why? Well it brings in a group I had created separately that could work into this faith. Maybe they absorbed them. I could even have a "Black" for the secret police within the faith.
I will give this some thought. But yeah this could be fun.
Showing posts sorted by date for query tharizdun. Sort by relevance Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by date for query tharizdun. Sort by relevance Show all posts
Tuesday, February 3, 2015
Friday, September 6, 2013
Wikipedia is irritating me
Well. Not Wikipedia, but some of the deletionists.
Now they want to delete the article on Tharizdun, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharizdun
So. Anyone know of some good 3rd party (not TSR or WotC) references?
I have a stack of magazines to go through, but I am running on fumes now.
Could use some help on Night Hag as well.
Now they want to delete the article on Tharizdun, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharizdun
So. Anyone know of some good 3rd party (not TSR or WotC) references?
I have a stack of magazines to go through, but I am running on fumes now.
Could use some help on Night Hag as well.
Tuesday, April 23, 2013
T is for Tharizdun and Tiamat
Yesterday I talked about the Devil as embodied in Satan. As I mentioned I don't like the idea of using such impossible evils to kill (if it has stats it can be killed). But near-impossible ones are fine.
I have talked about Tiamat a lot here. Not just the D&D concept of her, but the ancient myths and what she means in my world. She is the current "Big bad" in my kids 3rd edition game. They began as just a small group looking into researching dragons. In the process they discovered the rise of the old Cult of the Dragon (I am using what appeared in Dragon Magazine before it was went over to the Forgotten Realms) into a new threat. The feel the only way to stop this evil from taking over the world is go to the source.
The twist I am planning is the artifacts I am having my kids gather up to summon Tiamat are also just what she needs to come into this world to rule it. I am using ideas from the old Doctor Who serial "The Key of Time" and the Come Endless Darkness book by Gary Gygax (more on that book later). They have gathered up all the relics they need; and these are true relics, they are the remains of dragons that are now "saints" in Tiamat's evil pantheon. They are going to summon her using these relics and a few other items. Then there is going to be a big no-holds-barred fight on the Dragon Isles.
There are some parallels here with my last campaign/game "The Dragon and the Phoenix", but this one should be a lot bloodier.
Here are some of my relevant posts on Tiamat
Tharizdûn is closer to the classical idea of "The Devil" than Tiamat is. Though I do recall at one point thinking that Orcus was the son of Tiamat and Tharizdun. Not keeping that, but I might revisit it one day.
Unlike many of the other creatures, I have posted here Tharizdun was created whole cloth by Gary Gygax and expanded on in later books. He is the main bad guy in the Gord the Rogue books including Come Endless Darkness (he is on the cover in fact). In my games, he is god chained at the bottom of Hell and Asmodeus is his jailer still. Though the millennia of Tharizdun whispering in his ear it is hard to say how much of the original Asmodeus is actually left.
He is hinted at in the T1-4 modules and then bits and pieces in S4 and WG4. I think it would be very interesting to do the entire GDQ series under AD&D but instead of Lolth being the big bad, make her an unwitting pawn of Tharizidun. Get the Shard of Pure Evil (from 4th Edition) so he can escape his prison and destroy the world.
Sure it is an awful lot like my Tiamat arc above. But it works, and the stakes would be much higher.
Can't wait for my kids to fight these two!
I have talked about Tiamat a lot here. Not just the D&D concept of her, but the ancient myths and what she means in my world. She is the current "Big bad" in my kids 3rd edition game. They began as just a small group looking into researching dragons. In the process they discovered the rise of the old Cult of the Dragon (I am using what appeared in Dragon Magazine before it was went over to the Forgotten Realms) into a new threat. The feel the only way to stop this evil from taking over the world is go to the source.
The twist I am planning is the artifacts I am having my kids gather up to summon Tiamat are also just what she needs to come into this world to rule it. I am using ideas from the old Doctor Who serial "The Key of Time" and the Come Endless Darkness book by Gary Gygax (more on that book later). They have gathered up all the relics they need; and these are true relics, they are the remains of dragons that are now "saints" in Tiamat's evil pantheon. They are going to summon her using these relics and a few other items. Then there is going to be a big no-holds-barred fight on the Dragon Isles.
There are some parallels here with my last campaign/game "The Dragon and the Phoenix", but this one should be a lot bloodier.
Here are some of my relevant posts on Tiamat
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2012/06/tiamat-on-my-mind.html
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2010/11/sohave-you-ever-killed-god.html
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2012/03/dragonslayers-epic-epic-of-epicness.html
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2013/04/e-is-for-eodemon.html
Tharizdûn is closer to the classical idea of "The Devil" than Tiamat is. Though I do recall at one point thinking that Orcus was the son of Tiamat and Tharizdun. Not keeping that, but I might revisit it one day.
Unlike many of the other creatures, I have posted here Tharizdun was created whole cloth by Gary Gygax and expanded on in later books. He is the main bad guy in the Gord the Rogue books including Come Endless Darkness (he is on the cover in fact). In my games, he is god chained at the bottom of Hell and Asmodeus is his jailer still. Though the millennia of Tharizdun whispering in his ear it is hard to say how much of the original Asmodeus is actually left.
He is hinted at in the T1-4 modules and then bits and pieces in S4 and WG4. I think it would be very interesting to do the entire GDQ series under AD&D but instead of Lolth being the big bad, make her an unwitting pawn of Tharizidun. Get the Shard of Pure Evil (from 4th Edition) so he can escape his prison and destroy the world.
Sure it is an awful lot like my Tiamat arc above. But it works, and the stakes would be much higher.
Can't wait for my kids to fight these two!
Monday, April 22, 2013
S is for Satan
I have talked a lot about demons this month and about Hell prior to this. The one thing I have not talked much about is the Big D himself, The Devil aka Satan.
Here are two things you likely didn't know about Satan in RPGS and D&D in particular.
First, he usually doesn't appear in them. In fact, there are no official stats for Satan/Lucifer in D&D in any edition. Plenty of stats in third party products, but none for the guy himself.
Secondly, I never use Satan in my games. Not because I don't want too or have any fear of it, simply put there is no way he could ever live up to the expectation of the players.
One lucky roll and all my carefully laid plans become, oh hey we just killed the Source of All Evil. How many XP do we get? There is just no way that stats on paper can match up with the expectations of the players. With a character like Dracula, it is easier. He can be just as evil, just as much of a threat to the characters, but we know something else about Dracula. It's the same as Smaug, or Voldermort, or Vader or Sauron. These evils can and were defeated. Satan is, or at least should be, an unstoppable dreadnaught of evil. He is not the Monster of the Week, he is not even the Big Bad. He is the Biggest Bad EVER.
Despite the lurid tales from the 80's (check out Asshat Paladin's review of "Playing with Fire") or Pat Robertson's claims, D&D players are not Satanists. Sure, maybe some are. But no more or no less than say the general population (which is much smaller than people generally think).
Lucifer as Satan has appeared in the pages of Dragon Magazine and in the various Tome of Horrors books.
Satan made his appearance in Dragon #28 from 1979 in the infamous Politics of Hell article. Here are the stats he had then:
Satan
FREQUENCY Very rare
NO. APPEARING 1
ARMOR CLASS -8
MOVE Whatever desired
HIT DICE 333 hit points
% IN LAIR 5%
TREASURE TYPE H(*2), l(*2), U(*2)
NO. ATTACKS 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK 10-100
SPECIAL ATTACKS +3 or better weapon and purity of heart required to hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE 95%
INTELLIGENCE Godlike
ALIGNMENT Lawful evil
SIZE Variable
PSIONIC ABILITY Special
Attack/Defense Modes Special
and his more recent S&W stats:
(Satan from the Tome of Horrors Complete, Copyright 2011, Necromancer Games, Inc., published and distributed by Frog God Games; Authors Scott Greene.)
Satan
Hit Dice: 25 (150 hp)
Armor Class: -6 [25]
Attack: Rod of Infernus (3d6), bite (2d4 plus poison) or 2 claws (2d8), bite (2d4 plus poison), tail sting 1d8 plus poison)
Saving Throw: 3
Special: Gaze weapons, spells, summon devils, +3 or better weapon to hit, immunity to fire and poison, regeneration (4 hp/round), magic resistance (90%), see in darkness, telepathy 100 ft.
Move: 21/30 (flying)
Alignment: Chaos
Challenge Level/XP: 40/10400
The Pathfinder stats are even more powerful.
EVEN then there is some character out there that could take this guy. Maybe not many, but they are out there.
Lucifer and Satan have appeared as separate entities in the old Death's Edge Games Inferno games.
Which got me thinking, what if "Satan" isn't a person, but a title. Not "Satan" but "the Satan", similar to what I did for Demongorgon. The idea is not really an original one, Piers Anthony covered it in his Incarnations of Immortality series and it was covered well in the Charmed series with their Source of All Evil concept.
So the idea here is take a demon, already powerful, and juice him up on all the power of evil, or Evil, and he becomes the ruler of all demons. Take a page from Lexx and His Divine Shadow and make it so that the new host of this evil power, the new Satan, has all the memories of all the previous Satans AND the knowledge of the new host. That is a very dangerous foe.
So lets combine this idea with Dante's Inferno and some from the the D&D game itself. In D&D there is a god of Evil, Tharizdun (who I'll talk about more tomorrow) that is roughly the same as Lucifer/Satan.
Tharizdun is trapped in a prison where his jailer was Asmodeus. Asmodeus is now the leader of Hell and Tharisdun is forgotten. There are a lot of clues to his whereabouts and even Gygax himself featured him in his Gord the Rogue books. So my solution is to split "Satan" up into a couple of beings. Part of him is the imprisoned Beast and another part in actually part of AAsmodeus
Another part...well I have not figured that one out yet.
The real question that in a world FULL of demons, devils and all sorts of monsters what purpose does Satan serve? What does he do?
The recent Kelley Armstrong book "Thirteen" finally features Lucifer. He is very different than what is typically expected. Two of my favorite versions was Peter Cook's in Bedazzled and Viggo Mortensen in The Prophecy for different reasons. Maybe I should do that for my next October Movie marathon, only watch movies that feature the Devil/Satan as a character.
I also have something to say about RPGs and their role in the Satanic Panic of the 80s. But that needs to be for another day.
Here are two things you likely didn't know about Satan in RPGS and D&D in particular.
First, he usually doesn't appear in them. In fact, there are no official stats for Satan/Lucifer in D&D in any edition. Plenty of stats in third party products, but none for the guy himself.
Secondly, I never use Satan in my games. Not because I don't want too or have any fear of it, simply put there is no way he could ever live up to the expectation of the players.
One lucky roll and all my carefully laid plans become, oh hey we just killed the Source of All Evil. How many XP do we get? There is just no way that stats on paper can match up with the expectations of the players. With a character like Dracula, it is easier. He can be just as evil, just as much of a threat to the characters, but we know something else about Dracula. It's the same as Smaug, or Voldermort, or Vader or Sauron. These evils can and were defeated. Satan is, or at least should be, an unstoppable dreadnaught of evil. He is not the Monster of the Week, he is not even the Big Bad. He is the Biggest Bad EVER.
Despite the lurid tales from the 80's (check out Asshat Paladin's review of "Playing with Fire") or Pat Robertson's claims, D&D players are not Satanists. Sure, maybe some are. But no more or no less than say the general population (which is much smaller than people generally think).
Lucifer as Satan has appeared in the pages of Dragon Magazine and in the various Tome of Horrors books.
Satan made his appearance in Dragon #28 from 1979 in the infamous Politics of Hell article. Here are the stats he had then:
Satan
FREQUENCY Very rare
NO. APPEARING 1
ARMOR CLASS -8
MOVE Whatever desired
HIT DICE 333 hit points
% IN LAIR 5%
TREASURE TYPE H(*2), l(*2), U(*2)
NO. ATTACKS 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK 10-100
SPECIAL ATTACKS +3 or better weapon and purity of heart required to hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE 95%
INTELLIGENCE Godlike
ALIGNMENT Lawful evil
SIZE Variable
PSIONIC ABILITY Special
Attack/Defense Modes Special
and his more recent S&W stats:
(Satan from the Tome of Horrors Complete, Copyright 2011, Necromancer Games, Inc., published and distributed by Frog God Games; Authors Scott Greene.)
Satan
Hit Dice: 25 (150 hp)
Armor Class: -6 [25]
Attack: Rod of Infernus (3d6), bite (2d4 plus poison) or 2 claws (2d8), bite (2d4 plus poison), tail sting 1d8 plus poison)
Saving Throw: 3
Special: Gaze weapons, spells, summon devils, +3 or better weapon to hit, immunity to fire and poison, regeneration (4 hp/round), magic resistance (90%), see in darkness, telepathy 100 ft.
Move: 21/30 (flying)
Alignment: Chaos
Challenge Level/XP: 40/10400
The Pathfinder stats are even more powerful.
EVEN then there is some character out there that could take this guy. Maybe not many, but they are out there.
Lucifer and Satan have appeared as separate entities in the old Death's Edge Games Inferno games.
Which got me thinking, what if "Satan" isn't a person, but a title. Not "Satan" but "the Satan", similar to what I did for Demongorgon. The idea is not really an original one, Piers Anthony covered it in his Incarnations of Immortality series and it was covered well in the Charmed series with their Source of All Evil concept.
So the idea here is take a demon, already powerful, and juice him up on all the power of evil, or Evil, and he becomes the ruler of all demons. Take a page from Lexx and His Divine Shadow and make it so that the new host of this evil power, the new Satan, has all the memories of all the previous Satans AND the knowledge of the new host. That is a very dangerous foe.
So lets combine this idea with Dante's Inferno and some from the the D&D game itself. In D&D there is a god of Evil, Tharizdun (who I'll talk about more tomorrow) that is roughly the same as Lucifer/Satan.
Tharizdun is trapped in a prison where his jailer was Asmodeus. Asmodeus is now the leader of Hell and Tharisdun is forgotten. There are a lot of clues to his whereabouts and even Gygax himself featured him in his Gord the Rogue books. So my solution is to split "Satan" up into a couple of beings. Part of him is the imprisoned Beast and another part in actually part of AAsmodeus
Another part...well I have not figured that one out yet.
The real question that in a world FULL of demons, devils and all sorts of monsters what purpose does Satan serve? What does he do?
The recent Kelley Armstrong book "Thirteen" finally features Lucifer. He is very different than what is typically expected. Two of my favorite versions was Peter Cook's in Bedazzled and Viggo Mortensen in The Prophecy for different reasons. Maybe I should do that for my next October Movie marathon, only watch movies that feature the Devil/Satan as a character.
I also have something to say about RPGs and their role in the Satanic Panic of the 80s. But that needs to be for another day.
Thursday, April 18, 2013
P is for Paimon
Paimon is great scholar in his own right, in fact he may be the greatest mind in the infernal court. He has no desire for personal power, but he has amassed so much knowledge that no plan gets enacted that he does not know about. His familiars granted to mages and witches never fail to teach his subjects whatever knowledge they need to know. All he requires of course his their ever-lasting soul.
While he gives out good familiars he is never summoned himself. It is said that in order to summon Paimon the would be conjurer first needs to learn his secret language; no small feat. Then properly summon Paimon in this language and converse with him in it. Anyone that attempts to summon him will instead get his two chief advisers Beball and Abalam.
Paimon appears as a man with an effeminate or even a woman's face. He ride on a camel that breathes fire. He is richly dress and always appears kingly. He carries a rod that he uses to command or on the rare times that he partakes in combat.
If attacked Paimon sees fighting beneath him and will send his legions in his stead. If he found alone he will summon Beball and Abalam to fight for him.
All other Baalseraph fear him but they also value his sage advice and knowledge. None dare openly plot against him.
Paimon
Movement: 180'
Armor Class: -2
Hit Points (Hit Dice): 125 hp (24 HD)
Attacks: Rod
Damage: 1d8 +save vs. death on critical hit
Special: +2 or better weapon to hit, immunity to fire, electricity and poison, regeneration (1 hp/round), see in darkness, magic resistance (75%), telepathy 300 ft., knows everything
Save: F24
MORALE: 11
XP: 25,000
Beball and Abalam fight as powerful (full hp) Pit Fiends. Paimon's mount is a camel, but it possess all the same powers of the Shedim including a fire breath weapon like a red dragon.
*For the record, while I have nothing against adding Lucifer to my games it seem far to Judo-Christian for my tastes. Especially when I can achieve the same goals using the D&D version of Asmodeus or Tharizdun.
Sunday, December 30, 2012
Return of the Dragon Slayers!
I got a chance to play with the boys again today. We continued the DragonSlayers game from a while back. To recap they had just entered the Temple of Tharizdun and had held off the advancing hordes with a Wall of Flame spell.
I upped the stats of all the goblins, trolls and norkers in the place to make them partially demonic. Centuries of interbreeding has made them them evil, but dumb. The boys cleared out one side of the temple and found the access to the Black Cyst.
They recovered the Lament of Tharizdun, but the mostly Neutral Good party wants nothing to do with it. They have no issue with the legendary 333 gems of Tharizdun.
I am setting Tharizdun up as the next big bad. But not till the next generation. That is the 1st Ed AD&D game I started with the children of these characters.
I printed out the newer symbol of Tharizdun and had it ready. One of the demonic trolls had it on his armor, so I showed it to the boys. After some Knowledge Arcana, History and Religion rolls I announced that they didn't know what it was. My youngest, playing a half-elf Sorcerer/Ranger/Arcane Archer stated "I know exactly what it is. It's a target!!" and he fired two flaming arrows into the troll.
I have to admit, I was pretty amused by that!
They finished the adventure and high tailed it back to Glantri City. They are planning on taking a couple of months break before the next leg of their adventures, but I doubt it will be that long. There is some trouble brewing in Two Lake Vale and strange cloud over the land.
Friday, August 3, 2012
Gen Con 2012
It dawned on the other day that I am in no way shape or form ready for Gen Con 2012 yet.
Hotel was booked back in January, badges bought, games registered for.Google calendar updated.
But I am not mentally ready. I am not running anything this year officially, maybe something for my kids. Most likely the continuation of theForgotten Temple of Tharizdun.
I plan to pick some things up at the OSR booth, but there are not many purchases I want to make this year to be honest.
Who is going to the Best Four Days in Gaming?
What are your plans?
Hotel was booked back in January, badges bought, games registered for.Google calendar updated.
But I am not mentally ready. I am not running anything this year officially, maybe something for my kids. Most likely the continuation of theForgotten Temple of Tharizdun.
I plan to pick some things up at the OSR booth, but there are not many purchases I want to make this year to be honest.
Who is going to the Best Four Days in Gaming?
What are your plans?
Monday, July 2, 2012
Gods of the New Game
I still don't have a name yet for my new Realms based 4e game, but things are coming together really nice.
Now back when I said I didn't know anything about the Realms. Well that wasn't true. I don't know much about the lands or the peoples. I have no idea where Elminster is from, but I could pick him out in a police line up. But one thing I do know about is the gods of the Realms.
Back when I was working on my first Witch netbook I picked up what was at that time my only Realms specific book, Faiths & Avatars. I wanted some more info on various gods, various 2nd ed Kits and the human deities. Later I picked up Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities.
So Gods, I know.
I have been playing around with the plots lines of the Spellplague and the events in HPE modules.
And I have decided that I have killed of a number of the Gods.
Here is who is living and who is dead and why.
Bahamut has taken on Tyr's and Torm's portfolios. Torm was killed by Asmodeus. Is now a greater power.
Bane - Dead. Why? can't stand him. Plus I need Asmodeus as a greater threat. He killed Bane and absorbed all his power and portfolio. Part of his Reckoning of Hell. Asmodeus is still keeping Tharizdun chained up deep in Hell.
Kelemvor - Was killed by Orcus in the demon lord's attempt to regain his godhood. In my games Orcus was not a human that rose up through the ranks of demon-hood, but rather he was Death Primordial/Titan that had the powers of a god. He had been denounced and banished to the Abyss. He is searching for an artifact to give him ultimate power.
Mystra is dead, as per the book. But she won't stay that way for long.
The Raven Queen - from the D&D core and not the Realms I know. She is alive, but she has not come into her power at all. In fact she is currently in the guise of a teenage girl ala Death from the Endless. She is the vessel of Kelemvor's power.
Sehanine, Selûne and Shar are much as they are in the books. However in my world there is also a heresy and a cult dedicated to the "Triune Goddess" or the "Triple Moon Goddess" who believe that all three deities are merely part of the same greater goddess. They are respectively the Maiden, Mother and Crone.
The mother, Selûne, is pregnant with the infant Mystra. Since Kelemvor is dead, Shar is pulling double duties till the young Raven Queen is ready.
Others will appear (or die) as needed.
Back when I was working on my first Witch netbook I picked up what was at that time my only Realms specific book, Faiths & Avatars. I wanted some more info on various gods, various 2nd ed Kits and the human deities. Later I picked up Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities.
So Gods, I know.
I have been playing around with the plots lines of the Spellplague and the events in HPE modules.
And I have decided that I have killed of a number of the Gods.
Here is who is living and who is dead and why.
Bahamut has taken on Tyr's and Torm's portfolios. Torm was killed by Asmodeus. Is now a greater power.
Bane - Dead. Why? can't stand him. Plus I need Asmodeus as a greater threat. He killed Bane and absorbed all his power and portfolio. Part of his Reckoning of Hell. Asmodeus is still keeping Tharizdun chained up deep in Hell.
Kelemvor - Was killed by Orcus in the demon lord's attempt to regain his godhood. In my games Orcus was not a human that rose up through the ranks of demon-hood, but rather he was Death Primordial/Titan that had the powers of a god. He had been denounced and banished to the Abyss. He is searching for an artifact to give him ultimate power.
Mystra is dead, as per the book. But she won't stay that way for long.
The Raven Queen - from the D&D core and not the Realms I know. She is alive, but she has not come into her power at all. In fact she is currently in the guise of a teenage girl ala Death from the Endless. She is the vessel of Kelemvor's power.
Sehanine, Selûne and Shar are much as they are in the books. However in my world there is also a heresy and a cult dedicated to the "Triune Goddess" or the "Triple Moon Goddess" who believe that all three deities are merely part of the same greater goddess. They are respectively the Maiden, Mother and Crone.
The mother, Selûne, is pregnant with the infant Mystra. Since Kelemvor is dead, Shar is pulling double duties till the young Raven Queen is ready.
Others will appear (or die) as needed.
Thursday, March 1, 2012
Dragonslayers: An Epic Epic of Epicness
So after my Book of Vile Darkness enhanced version of S4:The Lost Caverns of the Tsojcanth, the characters all for the most part hit 20th level and frankly I don't want to stop.
So I am pouring over the Epic Level Handbook now. This is not something I used back when I was play 3.x, and it has taken this long for the boys to get to this level. I have some issues with it, for example the editing seems bad in places. But man this book is just full of great ideas. Some of which would be great for Epic Level Play in D&D4 or 20+ level in D&D Bacic/BECMI.
Really it is kind of a fascinating book. It takes the rules into places the original designers I don't think expected, but yet there is such an enthusiasm for it that it makes the reality of a 30-level D&D4 a no brainer.
They have not leveled up yet, they are still in the caves. I am merging the 3.x rewrite of the LSotT with the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdûn. I now have the temple far, far underground where the dengerate Norkers dwell and keep millennia old rituals alive to a God no one remembers. There will be demons, monsters of pure chaos and all sorts of evil. Maybe even a rogue Brain Collector. Love those guys.
To keep the sense of evil, dread and most importantly fear, I am still going to use the Book of Vile Darkness (both the 3.0 and 4.0 versions) but I'll also include some elder scariness from the Epic Level Handbook too.
The idea here is to build to something big, apocalyptic even. That is why I bought this thing.
The Mage Knight Apocalypse Dragon to stand in for the full Goddess form of Tiamat. That is the 3.x era Aspect of Tiamat and the 4e Orcus. I am not sure how powerful she is going to be, but I am expecting HP in the low 1000 area, at least 30-35 HD and enough magic the stomp a small city-state. I want it to be so epic that the boys will tell their own kids one day. Just like the time that my characters had to defeat Orcus in the original H4 Throne of Bloodstone back in that far off time of 1987 and that mystical land sages once spoke of, Southern Illinois.
But since I also want to make all the battles leading up to this one epic in feel I am also reading other's play experience with these two modules.
Beedo over at Dreams of the Lich House has a great post on his group's battle in the Temple of Tharizdun. This is a great run down and shows that all in not quiet in this so-called Forgotten temple. James of Grognardia gives us his retrospective as well. What both bloggers offer me is something I already knew, but was glad to see it all spelled out again. The Forgotten Temple is not a simple dungeon crawl. Sure it looks like one, but it isn't one. This is alien horror. This is Lovecraft meets the Satan Pit.
There is no over ridding goal to this adventure. This is uncovering a plot and then running the hell away. I'll give them chances to acquire some magic items, even face some ancient, eldritch evils.
If I ever do Tharizdûn it will have to be even bigger than the Tiamat battle.
Tharizdun. Now there is name. You don't need to know anything else about this guy other than his name to know he is up to no good.
In Gygax's Oerth he is the next best (worst) thing to Satan. He is the Source of All Evil, to borrow a page from Charmed. He is the biggest baddie there is. I'll take his "Satan" aspects and his "Thasaidon" aspects and maybe even pepper in a bit of Lovecraft for good measure.
Links I am currently reading for "inspiration".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forgotten_Temple_of_Tharizdun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharizdun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Ashton_Smith_deities#Thasaidon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaunadaur#Ghaunadaur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Evils
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tharizdun
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tharizdun
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elder_Elemental_Eye
http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=968
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/11/retrospective-forgotten-temple-of.html
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/08/pulp-fantasy-library-dark-eidolon.html
http://ulmo.mux.net/greyhawk/tharizdun.html
Anyone else run an Epic level game? Or take on the Temple of Tharizdun.
So I am pouring over the Epic Level Handbook now. This is not something I used back when I was play 3.x, and it has taken this long for the boys to get to this level. I have some issues with it, for example the editing seems bad in places. But man this book is just full of great ideas. Some of which would be great for Epic Level Play in D&D4 or 20+ level in D&D Bacic/BECMI.
Really it is kind of a fascinating book. It takes the rules into places the original designers I don't think expected, but yet there is such an enthusiasm for it that it makes the reality of a 30-level D&D4 a no brainer.
They have not leveled up yet, they are still in the caves. I am merging the 3.x rewrite of the LSotT with the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdûn. I now have the temple far, far underground where the dengerate Norkers dwell and keep millennia old rituals alive to a God no one remembers. There will be demons, monsters of pure chaos and all sorts of evil. Maybe even a rogue Brain Collector. Love those guys.
To keep the sense of evil, dread and most importantly fear, I am still going to use the Book of Vile Darkness (both the 3.0 and 4.0 versions) but I'll also include some elder scariness from the Epic Level Handbook too.
The idea here is to build to something big, apocalyptic even. That is why I bought this thing.
The Mage Knight Apocalypse Dragon to stand in for the full Goddess form of Tiamat. That is the 3.x era Aspect of Tiamat and the 4e Orcus. I am not sure how powerful she is going to be, but I am expecting HP in the low 1000 area, at least 30-35 HD and enough magic the stomp a small city-state. I want it to be so epic that the boys will tell their own kids one day. Just like the time that my characters had to defeat Orcus in the original H4 Throne of Bloodstone back in that far off time of 1987 and that mystical land sages once spoke of, Southern Illinois.
But since I also want to make all the battles leading up to this one epic in feel I am also reading other's play experience with these two modules.
Beedo over at Dreams of the Lich House has a great post on his group's battle in the Temple of Tharizdun. This is a great run down and shows that all in not quiet in this so-called Forgotten temple. James of Grognardia gives us his retrospective as well. What both bloggers offer me is something I already knew, but was glad to see it all spelled out again. The Forgotten Temple is not a simple dungeon crawl. Sure it looks like one, but it isn't one. This is alien horror. This is Lovecraft meets the Satan Pit.
There is no over ridding goal to this adventure. This is uncovering a plot and then running the hell away. I'll give them chances to acquire some magic items, even face some ancient, eldritch evils.
If I ever do Tharizdûn it will have to be even bigger than the Tiamat battle.
Tharizdun. Now there is name. You don't need to know anything else about this guy other than his name to know he is up to no good.
In Gygax's Oerth he is the next best (worst) thing to Satan. He is the Source of All Evil, to borrow a page from Charmed. He is the biggest baddie there is. I'll take his "Satan" aspects and his "Thasaidon" aspects and maybe even pepper in a bit of Lovecraft for good measure.
Links I am currently reading for "inspiration".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forgotten_Temple_of_Tharizdun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharizdun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Ashton_Smith_deities#Thasaidon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaunadaur#Ghaunadaur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Evils
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tharizdun
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tharizdun
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elder_Elemental_Eye
http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=968
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/11/retrospective-forgotten-temple-of.html
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/08/pulp-fantasy-library-dark-eidolon.html
http://ulmo.mux.net/greyhawk/tharizdun.html
Anyone else run an Epic level game? Or take on the Temple of Tharizdun.
Sunday, January 29, 2012
The Dragonslayers vs. The Lost Caverns of the Tsojcanth, Finale
Last night the Dragonslayers (aka my kids) finished up the Greater Caverns to discover Iggwilv's greatest treasure and fight Drelnza. I was considering to bring her back, but she was so completely destroyed that I just can't imagine how she would do it.
The boys did great really, I am very pleased how they played. I was amazed how well my youngest did. He figured out the secret of the central doors really fast and had a really good sense of direction. We used minis of course, but not for the entire dungeon, just the battles. They got the Lanthorn, the Prison, and all her books of magic. Everyone leveled up one level.
Of course the boys had a great time and we even got to play past bedtime. They woke up today and wanted to get right back into it. That is the sign of a good adventure.
Now I need to figure out what the guys are going to do next. I'd love to move on to the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, but I am anxious to get them to the big battle against Tiamat.
For that I am considering using the old H4 Throne of Bloodstone, but not sure yet.
Here are the previous posts in this series.
Tomorrow. Something special!
The boys did great really, I am very pleased how they played. I was amazed how well my youngest did. He figured out the secret of the central doors really fast and had a really good sense of direction. We used minis of course, but not for the entire dungeon, just the battles. They got the Lanthorn, the Prison, and all her books of magic. Everyone leveled up one level.
Of course the boys had a great time and we even got to play past bedtime. They woke up today and wanted to get right back into it. That is the sign of a good adventure.
Now I need to figure out what the guys are going to do next. I'd love to move on to the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, but I am anxious to get them to the big battle against Tiamat.
For that I am considering using the old H4 Throne of Bloodstone, but not sure yet.
Here are the previous posts in this series.
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2010/11/getting-back-in-to-it.html
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2011/06/dragonslayers-vs-lost-caverns-of.html
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2011/07/dragonslayers-vs-lost-caverns-of.html
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2011/12/return-of-dragonslayers.html
- http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/2012/01/dragonslayers-and-books-of-vile.html
Tomorrow. Something special!
Sunday, June 19, 2011
The Dragonslayers vs. The Lost Caverns of the Tsojcanth
Today the boys wanted to play some D&D for Father's Day. Really, how could I say no?
So we wrapped up the last bits of the return from White Plume mountain. The boys went and visited Crazy Omar to collect their reward. Omar got Whelm, as he wanted. They traded Blackrazor for an equally notorious weapon from my world, the crossbow "Bessie Mauler" (yes, yes stolen from the Riftwar Cycle, but to be fair I stole it from my old DM and I had no idea he had stolen from somewhere else).
I also wanted to point out that they now had a crowd following them wherever they went. After all they were the heroes that freed the Silver Princes and defeated Dragotha. They are a long way from The Caves of the Stinky Goblin (the first adventure of the Dragonslayers). I wanted them to feel like heroes.
Of course now they are a day's ride to the Horn of Iggwilv. Omar has told them that great treasure awaits them in Iggwilv's lair. They are free to keep the spell books, but Omar has his sight on "Iggwilv's Greatest Treasure" something so precious that she "wrapped in in gold". Well Omar, or the boys yet, don't know that the rumors of the greatest treasure are referring to Drelzna and she is wrapped in gold. Gold armor to be exact.
The made it up into the mountains. They know there is a Gnome kingdom located in the mountains and they have just been abused by a group of Stone Giants tossing boulders at them.
I have had S4 forever and it is great to finally get a chance to run it. I am using the original AD&D 1st ed version of this, along with the Iggwilv's Legacy update from WotC from 2007 (no longer online) and will include the Lost Temple of Tharizdun IF it seems like a good idea. This adventure should take us well into Gen Con.
There is a blue dragon in this adventure and one in the next one I am planning, Death's Ride. I am going to make them the same blue dragon. It would be good to give them a reoccurring enemy. And who better for the Dragonslayers than the Huge Blue Dragon Korbundar?
I am not planning on having them run into Iggwilv just yet. Mostly I am torn on whether or not to make into a witch (one of my versions) or make her into a wizard. She did study with the Circle of Eight and she does seem to be in every respect a wizard. The easiest thing to do is cheat and wait till I am running 4e and just make her into a Warlock/Wizard multiclass. A person of such history would be great to have in my games. Wilva though is not a do-er, she is a manipulator. She has pawns. I think this pic sums her up best.
I still have my Big PlanTM in motion for 4e and Iggwilv is a part of that. So she is manipulating the Dragonslayers now to get them in place for her take over of the Abyss. Turns out it will be their kids, but she can wait.
I just don't know if I can! I want to play this all now!
So we wrapped up the last bits of the return from White Plume mountain. The boys went and visited Crazy Omar to collect their reward. Omar got Whelm, as he wanted. They traded Blackrazor for an equally notorious weapon from my world, the crossbow "Bessie Mauler" (yes, yes stolen from the Riftwar Cycle, but to be fair I stole it from my old DM and I had no idea he had stolen from somewhere else).
Of course now they are a day's ride to the Horn of Iggwilv. Omar has told them that great treasure awaits them in Iggwilv's lair. They are free to keep the spell books, but Omar has his sight on "Iggwilv's Greatest Treasure" something so precious that she "wrapped in in gold". Well Omar, or the boys yet, don't know that the rumors of the greatest treasure are referring to Drelzna and she is wrapped in gold. Gold armor to be exact.
The made it up into the mountains. They know there is a Gnome kingdom located in the mountains and they have just been abused by a group of Stone Giants tossing boulders at them.
I have had S4 forever and it is great to finally get a chance to run it. I am using the original AD&D 1st ed version of this, along with the Iggwilv's Legacy update from WotC from 2007 (no longer online) and will include the Lost Temple of Tharizdun IF it seems like a good idea. This adventure should take us well into Gen Con.
There is a blue dragon in this adventure and one in the next one I am planning, Death's Ride. I am going to make them the same blue dragon. It would be good to give them a reoccurring enemy. And who better for the Dragonslayers than the Huge Blue Dragon Korbundar?
I am not planning on having them run into Iggwilv just yet. Mostly I am torn on whether or not to make into a witch (one of my versions) or make her into a wizard. She did study with the Circle of Eight and she does seem to be in every respect a wizard. The easiest thing to do is cheat and wait till I am running 4e and just make her into a Warlock/Wizard multiclass. A person of such history would be great to have in my games. Wilva though is not a do-er, she is a manipulator. She has pawns. I think this pic sums her up best.
I still have my Big PlanTM in motion for 4e and Iggwilv is a part of that. So she is manipulating the Dragonslayers now to get them in place for her take over of the Abyss. Turns out it will be their kids, but she can wait.
I just don't know if I can! I want to play this all now!
Tuesday, May 24, 2011
Post 666
I have talked about Hell before and some of it's inhabitants and some potential inhabitants. If I follow this logic then devils would be the ultimate foe for the elves. Not that I don't mind this idea at all. But I think I might focus it a bit more. Combine the story of Dante's Inferno, Milton's Paradise Lost and Lolth's shunning/betrayal and I can paint a pretty detailed idea of what Hell is in my world.
Hell is the ultimate prison for the fallen. Gods, Angels and other powers are cast out and into hell.
Let's start with a couple of Goddess that give me some problems.
Tiamat is a Goddess and Queen of all evil dragons. She has always been listed as having a domain on the first level of Hell. I have never really liked that to be honest. Tiamat is in Babylonian myth primal Chaos. If anything she should be in the Abyss. Using the new 4e cosmology that would place her in the Elemental Chaos, which is really the perfect place for her. In Dragonlance her home was always called "the Abyss". In my games I always called her realm Tehom, which means Abyss in Hebrew and is associated with the mythical Tiamat. So she really has no place in Hell. Who should replace her?
Lolth on the other hand is better fit. Her story is more in line with the casting out of the Angels into Hell. Though I am not sure I want her in Hell proper, maybe more of the Ante-chamber to Hell, near the Underdark. This would be similar to the first level of Hell that Dante claimed the Pagans went too. So I am trading a giant dragon for a giant spider. For a bit of tongue in cheek continuity I would make Tiamat and Lolth allies. They have different goals and motivations, but I see them as felling they have a common history so if it benefits them to share an alliance, then they would. Lolth's realm is still called the Demonweb and she still has a number of demons in her employ.
Devils in my Game
Demons are easy. They are evil, chaotic outsiders bent on destruction of everything. Devils are much more complicated. I say in my game Devils are only Fallen Angels. That means there are a finite number of them and once they are gone, that is it. There are a lot of creatures that are called devils, but most of them are demons pressed into service. Since they have been forced into service by the Devils they have changed, they can evolve into greater forms. Pit Fiends are those fiends that have reason up in ranks. The True Devils still look down on them.
Since I started this post, Dreams of the Lich House posted a bit about using Satan/The Tempter in your games. It is a good read. It also ties in nicely with the Milton/Dante-ish cosmology I want to use for Hell. I would keep the 9 layers. The top most being the "Ante-Chamber of Hell" and the rest each ruled by an Arch Duke. Also each Arch Duke is responsible for one of the Seven Deadly sins.
| Layer | Name | Arch-Duke | Deadly Sin |
| 1 | Avernus | none | na |
| 2 | Dis | Dispater | Envy |
| 3 | Minauros | Mammon | Greed |
| 4 | Phlegethos | Belial | Sloth |
| 5 | Stygia | Geryon | Wrath |
| 6 | Malbolge | Glayssa | Lust |
| 7 | Maladomini | Baalzebul/Beelzebub | Gluttony |
| 8 | Cania | Mephistopheles | Pride |
| 9 | Nessus | Asmodeus | * |
Glayssa was given Lust, Asmodeus' old sin since he is now in charge. His though is the sin of betrayal.
In the 4e cosmology Asmodeus was the angel guarding the prison that Tharizdun was held in. Tharizdûn corrupted him and Asmodues and his angels all fell. I have decided that Tharizdun is still chained, but the greatest deceit is that he is not where all the gods think he is. He is in fact buried deep in Hell where Asmodeus taps his power. This is how he has been elevated to near Godhood. Of course this might be Tharizdun plan to to trap Asmodeus in his thrall even more.
Chances are good that the Dragonslayers will run into the cult of Tharizdun sometime soon. I just need something to do with them.
I am not planning on the Dragonslayers going to Hell anytime soon, so this all might be for nothing.
Sunday, November 28, 2010
Getting back in to it
Ok, sorry for the long delay. Holidays, work, school. You know the drill.
I am going to start my end game for the "Dragon Slayers" game. Here is how it is going to go.
The Dragon Slayers are in Glantri now having just solved the mystery of the Palace of the Silver Princess (module B3).
I was going to have them go on to S4 and WG4, but instead I think it will go like this.
First I am going to have to go to the "Forbidden City" (module I1) since I worked on the Wikipedia article a lot. Then move on to the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (module S4) one of my favorite adventures. Here they will need to get the copy of Iggwilv's Demonomicon. Then naturally move on to WG4, the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun and then finally ending in Death's Ride (module CM2) then moving on to Tiamat's lair for the big "boss battle". Though I am going to have to up the challenges in all the modules since the characters are now between 14th and 17th level.
What I am thinking of doing is expanding S4 and WG4 into one larger supermodule. There is so much information out there on S4 and it is a module I have owned since 1983, so I am very familiar with it. Plus there is a lot of cool things in S4 that play well into the overall arc. We need a copy of the Demonomicon and the Wonderous Lanthorn would be cool to have as would the Prison of Zagig (great place for Tiamat after the Dragon Slayers destroy her physical body).
Something to look forward to.
The Dragon Slayers are in Glantri now having just solved the mystery of the Palace of the Silver Princess (module B3).
I was going to have them go on to S4 and WG4, but instead I think it will go like this.
First I am going to have to go to the "Forbidden City" (module I1) since I worked on the Wikipedia article a lot. Then move on to the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (module S4) one of my favorite adventures. Here they will need to get the copy of Iggwilv's Demonomicon. Then naturally move on to WG4, the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun and then finally ending in Death's Ride (module CM2) then moving on to Tiamat's lair for the big "boss battle". Though I am going to have to up the challenges in all the modules since the characters are now between 14th and 17th level.
What I am thinking of doing is expanding S4 and WG4 into one larger supermodule. There is so much information out there on S4 and it is a module I have owned since 1983, so I am very familiar with it. Plus there is a lot of cool things in S4 that play well into the overall arc. We need a copy of the Demonomicon and the Wonderous Lanthorn would be cool to have as would the Prison of Zagig (great place for Tiamat after the Dragon Slayers destroy her physical body).
Something to look forward to.
Tuesday, November 23, 2010
Up next, Lost Caves, Hidden Temples and Death's Ride
So I am starting up my end game for the Dragon Slayers.
I think their next to the last adventure will be the old D&D Companion Adventure Death's Ride. I remember going through this one when I was younger and I think it will be a perfect fit for this group.
It will help build up some of the action for the next campaign and it is a good cap for this campaign.
I am going to do S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth first, and maybe squeak in WG4 The Lost Temple of Tharizdun. There is a blue dragon in S4 that just might become Korbundar in CM2.
Now the question I have for you all.
Does anyone know if CM2 had been updated to 3.x rules at all? I have a ton of RTF/DOC files of modules that people updated back in the early days of 3.0. I have them for a lot of modules, but what I don't have is one for CM2.
Anyone know if something like this is out there?
I think their next to the last adventure will be the old D&D Companion Adventure Death's Ride. I remember going through this one when I was younger and I think it will be a perfect fit for this group.
It will help build up some of the action for the next campaign and it is a good cap for this campaign.
I am going to do S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth first, and maybe squeak in WG4 The Lost Temple of Tharizdun. There is a blue dragon in S4 that just might become Korbundar in CM2.
Now the question I have for you all.
Does anyone know if CM2 had been updated to 3.x rules at all? I have a ton of RTF/DOC files of modules that people updated back in the early days of 3.0. I have them for a lot of modules, but what I don't have is one for CM2.
Anyone know if something like this is out there?
Saturday, November 20, 2010
Orcus as the Boss? Immortal level D&D? What's my End Game?
I have been thinking about the whole Orcus as the big bad in 4e. It's cool and it has a lot of fun about it. But there is a big issue I have with it. Orcus is a brute. He his not a planner or plotter. He smashes and destroys.
In my game multiverse Orcus used to be a Primal God. In 4e I am fine with this being called a Primordial, but now he is a demon. He is a demon prince and a very, very powerful one, but an over arching plot seems a bit cerebral for him. I am thinking that maybe Orcus is nothing more than the weapon being used by someone more powerful, but behind the scenes. But who and for what ends?
I mean Orcus is no dummy, but as a demon he is more concerned with destruction than labyrinthine plots.
Here are some thoughts on some potential players.
Vecna - God of evil knowledge and a lich, but what does Orcus have that Vecna wants? What could Vecna be using Orcus for?
Asmodeus - The Blood War may be in cold war mode now, but maybe the Arch duke of Hell needs Orcus to get the seed of evil.
Tharizdûn - This one is easiest. Tharizdûn wants out of his prison. While everyone thinks Tharizdun is imprisoned either in the Abyss or the Astral, he is in reality imprisoned in the lowest point in Hell. Asmodeus is still his jailer. I would make him a bit like Lucifer in Dante's Inferno, chained to very bottom of hell. Asmodeus thinks he is draining power off of Tharizdûn, which is why he is a god-like power now. Tharizdun is allowing this knowing that he gains a little more control over Asmodeus. Who is using who? Well I guess that depends on who wins in the end.
Iggwilv - The Witch Queen wants the Abyss, and Orcus is one of the big things in her way. I have been dying to use her is some way.
So here is my plan.
Iggwilv and Asmodeus are working together to manipulate Orcus. He is being propped up as this huge threat so the PCs take him out. Iggwilv is directing the PCs to do this while also working on Orcus telling him that doing this will make him a god. The plan is to have the PCs kill Orcus and deliver his wand somewhere it can be destroyed. The PCs end up in Hell and hand over the Wand to Asmodeus. Asmodeus has told Iggwilv that he wants the extra shard and she can keep the Abyss. In truth Asmodeus is being manipulated by Thaizdun. Orcus' Wand and Asmodeus' Rod together will free him.
Yes, this is bit much for a D&D plot, especially a D&D4 one, but I like the idea. If the PCs play this right they could defeat Orcus, Iggwilv and Asmodeus all in one fell swoop.
The old AD&D adventure H4 Throne of Bloodstone is an influence here since the goal there is to destroy the Wand. The E1-3 series for D&D4 focuses on Orcus wanting to become a god. So I will merge them a bit. The whole Tharizdun bit is a bit recycled from the Gygax "Dance of Demons" book, but that is fine really.
Part of this though also depends on something else.
To defeat Orcus in the E series takes the characters right to 30th level. To then take on Iggwilv, Asmodeus AND Tharizdun then is something else altogether.
So I had yet another idea. What about Immortal Level D&D. Reading over the Mentzer D&D BECMI set I do see how well Immortal level play can work and that is something Immortals would do, stop the imbalance of Tharizdun coming back into play. I am just not quite sure how to do that in D&D4 just yet. I am sure I'll figure it out. Though I did ask about it on RPG.Net.
Presently I am working on finishing my 3.x campaign. Since the 4e characters are the kids of the 3.x ones I can start planting some seeds now. Drop the name Tharizdun and Iggwilv. Mention Orcus' and Asmodeus' rise to power. Might need to figure out how Vecna and Raven Queen fit into all of this. Maybe once Orcus is dead Vecna becomes the new patron of the Undead. Am I ready to get rid of Orcus once and for all?
Hmm. Interesting thought.
In my game multiverse Orcus used to be a Primal God. In 4e I am fine with this being called a Primordial, but now he is a demon. He is a demon prince and a very, very powerful one, but an over arching plot seems a bit cerebral for him. I am thinking that maybe Orcus is nothing more than the weapon being used by someone more powerful, but behind the scenes. But who and for what ends?
I mean Orcus is no dummy, but as a demon he is more concerned with destruction than labyrinthine plots.
Here are some thoughts on some potential players.
Vecna - God of evil knowledge and a lich, but what does Orcus have that Vecna wants? What could Vecna be using Orcus for?
Asmodeus - The Blood War may be in cold war mode now, but maybe the Arch duke of Hell needs Orcus to get the seed of evil.
Tharizdûn - This one is easiest. Tharizdûn wants out of his prison. While everyone thinks Tharizdun is imprisoned either in the Abyss or the Astral, he is in reality imprisoned in the lowest point in Hell. Asmodeus is still his jailer. I would make him a bit like Lucifer in Dante's Inferno, chained to very bottom of hell. Asmodeus thinks he is draining power off of Tharizdûn, which is why he is a god-like power now. Tharizdun is allowing this knowing that he gains a little more control over Asmodeus. Who is using who? Well I guess that depends on who wins in the end.
Iggwilv - The Witch Queen wants the Abyss, and Orcus is one of the big things in her way. I have been dying to use her is some way.
So here is my plan.
Iggwilv and Asmodeus are working together to manipulate Orcus. He is being propped up as this huge threat so the PCs take him out. Iggwilv is directing the PCs to do this while also working on Orcus telling him that doing this will make him a god. The plan is to have the PCs kill Orcus and deliver his wand somewhere it can be destroyed. The PCs end up in Hell and hand over the Wand to Asmodeus. Asmodeus has told Iggwilv that he wants the extra shard and she can keep the Abyss. In truth Asmodeus is being manipulated by Thaizdun. Orcus' Wand and Asmodeus' Rod together will free him.
Yes, this is bit much for a D&D plot, especially a D&D4 one, but I like the idea. If the PCs play this right they could defeat Orcus, Iggwilv and Asmodeus all in one fell swoop.
The old AD&D adventure H4 Throne of Bloodstone is an influence here since the goal there is to destroy the Wand. The E1-3 series for D&D4 focuses on Orcus wanting to become a god. So I will merge them a bit. The whole Tharizdun bit is a bit recycled from the Gygax "Dance of Demons" book, but that is fine really.
Part of this though also depends on something else.
To defeat Orcus in the E series takes the characters right to 30th level. To then take on Iggwilv, Asmodeus AND Tharizdun then is something else altogether.
So I had yet another idea. What about Immortal Level D&D. Reading over the Mentzer D&D BECMI set I do see how well Immortal level play can work and that is something Immortals would do, stop the imbalance of Tharizdun coming back into play. I am just not quite sure how to do that in D&D4 just yet. I am sure I'll figure it out. Though I did ask about it on RPG.Net.
Presently I am working on finishing my 3.x campaign. Since the 4e characters are the kids of the 3.x ones I can start planting some seeds now. Drop the name Tharizdun and Iggwilv. Mention Orcus' and Asmodeus' rise to power. Might need to figure out how Vecna and Raven Queen fit into all of this. Maybe once Orcus is dead Vecna becomes the new patron of the Undead. Am I ready to get rid of Orcus once and for all?
Hmm. Interesting thought.
Sunday, July 11, 2010
4e Purchases
I picked up some new 4e books this weekend that are not due out till July 20th.
Benefits of living near a huge game store.
First Up, Demonicon
An interesting book and I have always liked demons as the ultimate foes in D&D. Of course I dislike the name, but it has been with us since Module S4 so it's a little late to part with now. At least it is better than the 2nd Ed era wimp out "Fiendonomicon". Gah.
The cover, to me anyway, brings up images of Eldritch Wizardry, the first D&D book to feature demons. The blonde on her back in obvious sacrifice. These are not misunderstood monsters, these are demons and they are evil.
Lots of demons. Lots of history on the Abyss.
I like the way they have tied in Tharizdun to whole mythos now. So this will be great when I run S4-WG4 for my kids and they actually find a copy of the Demonomicon of Iggwilv. I like that Demogorgon, Orcus and Baphomet were once Primordials. Something I was doing anyway. I like that there is more for Tharizdun, even though I can see he will also soon get on my nerves if he keeps popping up. But I always liked him since reading about him the "Gord the Rogue" books by Gary.
There are some cool demonic lairs that can be used on their own or as part of a larger campaign in the Abyss.
Now see this is where not having the PDFs of the books is a real pain. I would have loved to have had a PDF of this to print out and put in a binder with all the information on the Abyss from The Plane Below and Manual of the Planes, all the information from various Dragon and Dungeon articles, and all the demons from the Monster Manuals all in one place. Made a complete Demonomicon if you like. I had started this exact idea for 3.x, though rather late in the game and never got everything printed out.
I dislike the whole "Asmodeus is at the center of all evil plots" idea that has pervaded the last two editions of D&D, but with some of the new information in this book, I have some ideas. All in all, I like this book, but I expected that I would. I do have one quibble. They do list Malcanthet as a demon lord. Well, she was demon lord of the Succubi in the last edition. Succubi are no longer demons...
Tomb of Horrors
There are very, very few adventures as notorious as the Tomb of Horrors. It is also held up to some unrealistic standard for modules that it must be a "good thing" to kill off characters.
Well I am reasonably certain that Tomb of Horrors for 4e will get cries of "blasphemy" and "sacrilege" from certain quarters; but I am also reasonably certain that those quarters were never going to buy this book anyway.
The new adventure is not just one, but 4 Tombs scattered all over the new D&D4 cosmology. Clever really if you are wanting to introduce what is cool in this new world to players that pick this up remembering the original ToH.
Speaking of the Original Tomb, it is here, in it's abandoned form. Note: WOTC Guys, you copied the original Tomb map perfectly, too perfectly in fact. The scale of the original map was one square = 10 feet. Scale on the new map is the more common for 4e 1 square = 5 feet. So our entry hallway is now 10 feet wide instead of 20 feet wide. Minor quibble, I can explain it away in any number of ways, but still.
There are rules and notes in here about how to play the Tomb just like the old days, but they explain why they didn't design the module like that to start. All in all it is a neat module and adventure. It is still a killer module, as in it will kill characters if they are stupid.
I am not going to try to blow any sunshine up your ass, if you love "Tomb of Horrors" and hate D&D 4 you will hate this. If you liked ToH and like D&D 4 then this is nice little "Return to the Return of the Tomb of Horrors".
What I like about it is it assumes that the characters do not live in a vacuum. The Tomb of Horrors is legendary to players and characters. This module assumes it was cleared out in the 70's and 80's and now the next gen is here to see what is new. It's the exact same thing I doing with "B3 Palace of the Silver Princess" and the same thing I did with the whole "Road Stories" arc of "Season of the Witch" for my Willow & Tara game.
While reading through them both I can see elements that I will use in my big D&D 4e campaign against Orcus. Acererak could be allied with Orcus, or more likely Tharizdun. Though I had not considered Tharizdun to be a huge player in this game. He is chained up after all. In fact it has helped me solidify a few ideas.
Benefits of living near a huge game store.
First Up, Demonicon
The cover, to me anyway, brings up images of Eldritch Wizardry, the first D&D book to feature demons. The blonde on her back in obvious sacrifice. These are not misunderstood monsters, these are demons and they are evil.
Lots of demons. Lots of history on the Abyss.
I like the way they have tied in Tharizdun to whole mythos now. So this will be great when I run S4-WG4 for my kids and they actually find a copy of the Demonomicon of Iggwilv. I like that Demogorgon, Orcus and Baphomet were once Primordials. Something I was doing anyway. I like that there is more for Tharizdun, even though I can see he will also soon get on my nerves if he keeps popping up. But I always liked him since reading about him the "Gord the Rogue" books by Gary.
There are some cool demonic lairs that can be used on their own or as part of a larger campaign in the Abyss.
Now see this is where not having the PDFs of the books is a real pain. I would have loved to have had a PDF of this to print out and put in a binder with all the information on the Abyss from The Plane Below and Manual of the Planes, all the information from various Dragon and Dungeon articles, and all the demons from the Monster Manuals all in one place. Made a complete Demonomicon if you like. I had started this exact idea for 3.x, though rather late in the game and never got everything printed out.
I dislike the whole "Asmodeus is at the center of all evil plots" idea that has pervaded the last two editions of D&D, but with some of the new information in this book, I have some ideas. All in all, I like this book, but I expected that I would. I do have one quibble. They do list Malcanthet as a demon lord. Well, she was demon lord of the Succubi in the last edition. Succubi are no longer demons...
Tomb of Horrors
Well I am reasonably certain that Tomb of Horrors for 4e will get cries of "blasphemy" and "sacrilege" from certain quarters; but I am also reasonably certain that those quarters were never going to buy this book anyway.
The new adventure is not just one, but 4 Tombs scattered all over the new D&D4 cosmology. Clever really if you are wanting to introduce what is cool in this new world to players that pick this up remembering the original ToH.
Speaking of the Original Tomb, it is here, in it's abandoned form. Note: WOTC Guys, you copied the original Tomb map perfectly, too perfectly in fact. The scale of the original map was one square = 10 feet. Scale on the new map is the more common for 4e 1 square = 5 feet. So our entry hallway is now 10 feet wide instead of 20 feet wide. Minor quibble, I can explain it away in any number of ways, but still.
There are rules and notes in here about how to play the Tomb just like the old days, but they explain why they didn't design the module like that to start. All in all it is a neat module and adventure. It is still a killer module, as in it will kill characters if they are stupid.
I am not going to try to blow any sunshine up your ass, if you love "Tomb of Horrors" and hate D&D 4 you will hate this. If you liked ToH and like D&D 4 then this is nice little "Return to the Return of the Tomb of Horrors".
What I like about it is it assumes that the characters do not live in a vacuum. The Tomb of Horrors is legendary to players and characters. This module assumes it was cleared out in the 70's and 80's and now the next gen is here to see what is new. It's the exact same thing I doing with "B3 Palace of the Silver Princess" and the same thing I did with the whole "Road Stories" arc of "Season of the Witch" for my Willow & Tara game.
While reading through them both I can see elements that I will use in my big D&D 4e campaign against Orcus. Acererak could be allied with Orcus, or more likely Tharizdun. Though I had not considered Tharizdun to be a huge player in this game. He is chained up after all. In fact it has helped me solidify a few ideas.
Wednesday, July 7, 2010
Return to the Palace of Silver Princess
Like a lot of gamers my age I am familiar with the module B3: Palace of the Silver Princess, and like most of those gamers my experience is with the "Green" cover version. Well I had heard about the infamous "Orange" cover version of course, but never hoped I would see it. Well Wizards of the Coast had changed that when they released the banned Orange version a few years back along with the story of why it was banned/deemed inappropriate. An interesting bit of game history, but really I think nearly everyone feels that the edited Green version is the better module.
I think I'll take a suggestion from Wizards and run this as "Return to the Palace of the Silver Princess". The events of the "green" cover happened many years ago, but something went wrong that lead to the events of "orange" cover. The Eye of Arik wasn't destroyed properly and soon the entire area became cursed. Ellis the Strong (The Silver Warrior) became the the cause in the minds of the locals. While the evil energies pouring out of the fragmented eye caused mutations in all living things in the castle. Plants became vampire roses and archer bushes, the staff became Ubues (gotta explain them somehow), Aliegha, Catharandamus and the dwarves Boron and Xyzom were adventurers that came here previously and are now coming under the affects of the Eye. Catharandamus is going insane, thinking he can summon Arik, Aliegh is turning into a wolf (or bear or a bear-wolf crossbred-thingy) and the dwarves are slowly becoming orcs. I do plan on using Candella and Duchess, as randomish NPCs, but they had just gotten there and have not started to mutate yet. I just liked that picture of the two of them being caught by surprise.
Reading the Orange version with knowledge of the Green is an interesting experience and one that almost always leaves the Orange one coming up a bit short. Not that the Green version, with edits by Basic Game guru Tom Moldvay, is a stellar module, it does have it's moments.
B3 holds a special place for me since it is the first module I ever bought specifically to run and not play in. There was a lot for a neophyte DM like myself in 1981 to like. The programmed adventure in the beginning was a nice touch to kid just learning how to also program the computers in Jr. High. Arik of the Hundred Eyes was an awesome sounding bad guy and one I had hoped would make another appearance one day. And it was easy for me to place this all in Glantri from the Expert Set, it seemed to fit well with other things I had going on at the time.
Reading over the Wizard's site this past weekend got me thinking. I have wanted to use B3 in my kids' game for a while now. Thanks to the maps (linked below) from the Vaults of Pandius and the update to D&D 3.0 version of the monsters and encounters I could run this is as-is for them now. Of course I'll want to bump the encounters up a bit to make them more challenging. Course the maps are for the Green version and 3.0 update is for the Orange version.
I think I'll take a suggestion from Wizards and run this as "Return to the Palace of the Silver Princess". The events of the "green" cover happened many years ago, but something went wrong that lead to the events of "orange" cover. The Eye of Arik wasn't destroyed properly and soon the entire area became cursed. Ellis the Strong (The Silver Warrior) became the the cause in the minds of the locals. While the evil energies pouring out of the fragmented eye caused mutations in all living things in the castle. Plants became vampire roses and archer bushes, the staff became Ubues (gotta explain them somehow), Aliegha, Catharandamus and the dwarves Boron and Xyzom were adventurers that came here previously and are now coming under the affects of the Eye. Catharandamus is going insane, thinking he can summon Arik, Aliegh is turning into a wolf (or bear or a bear-wolf crossbred-thingy) and the dwarves are slowly becoming orcs. I do plan on using Candella and Duchess, as randomish NPCs, but they had just gotten there and have not started to mutate yet. I just liked that picture of the two of them being caught by surprise. I doubt I will drop any hints here to the upcoming 4e adventures or even the on going Dragonslayer's plot. So Arik is not really another name for Tharizdun, and I doubt I'll make the Eye of Arik a part of the summoning ritual they need for Tiamat. Just a little side adventure to amuse me and them while I build them up to the big finale. Though the Knights of the White Drakes from the Green version allays interested me. Maybe once the adventure is over I'll have the Knights send them their thanks and offer them a great gift, a Drake (a riding dragon) for them to use in their battle against Tiamat. My son would LOVE that. Of course that only works if the the guy on the dragon that everyone thinks is evil is actually good and the characters help clear his name. I do like that idea.
Links
- Wizard's page for the Orange version, http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20020121x7
- Grognardia reflects on B3, http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/11/retrospective-palace-of-silver-princess.html
- As does Emerald Lich, http://www.emeraldlich.com/post.php?post_id=1162
- Acaeum overview, http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b3.html
- Cool maps from the Mystara uber-site, Vaults of Pandius, http://pandius.com/maps.html
- d20/3.0 conversion at ENWorld, http://www.enworld.org/cc/downloads/files/palace_of_the_silver_princess.rtf
Thursday, July 1, 2010
Revised Plan; Generational Mega Plots, Part 2
So. I started to put my plan into action for the first major campaign arc I have planed out from square 1 and ran since the Dragon and Phoenix. My boys are excited, my wife will buy me adventures (how cool is that?!) and we will get going.
I told the boys that they can play two characters. A character and a companion character via the 4e rules. We need the extra characters because they wont survive otherwise. So far we are going to have a Dragonborn Paladin, a Dragonborn Sorcerer, a Ranger with some thief skills and a "sword guy". I am thinking the "Sword guy" will be a Warlord to get at the Leader role. But we certainly need a Cleric if for nothing else than for undead battling. Given that this is 4E I do want the roles to be covered. So I have a defender and a couple of strikers, I need a controller and a leader. The "Sword Guy" would work, but I am going to look into all the Leaders we have so far and see what would fit the best. He would love a Swordmage, but that is a defender. Bard is a good choice, but I would really prefer a Cleric I think. I like the Inovker as a potential controller too.
I am going to start to lay the seeds in my current game for this new one. The 4e characters are the descendants of the 3.x characters. So yeah I am likely to give 1st level characters a magic item each. I know some of you old-schoolers are cringing at the thought. So some clues will be laid out about Tharizdun, the Raven Queen and Orcus. I will have the Raven Queen kill Nerull sometime before the 4e game starts. The result will be massive amounts of undead roaming the lands due to the "backlash of necrotic energies". The Raven Queen is getting them under control, but this backlash has not escaped the attentions of Orcus and Vecna. Orcus wants to use this time to kill the Raven Queen and put himself in her place. She is still just a "godling" in age, but controls vast amounts of power. Vecna wants her power pure and simple. I can begin the 4e adventure with a story on how one horrible day all the dead got up and attacked. There was a mini-Rekoning (ala WitchCraft RPG) and magic went crazy and now everything is new again. Better than ramming a planet into my world. If that is the case then I might want to run CM2 Death's Ride for the current 3.x group, build up to that. Plus Death's Ride has something else I want, some great NPCs for the characters to fight as an arch nemesis.
The Raven Queen is going to be a combination of Death from The Endless, the Raven Queen of D&D world and the Morrigan of Celtic Myth. So less like Xena becoming Death and more like Teen Titans' Raven becoming Death. Or some combination. I like the idea of the world's most powerful god being a teenage goth chick. With her being younger it would help my kids relate to her more.
Some things to consider while I look over my adventures and books some more.
I told the boys that they can play two characters. A character and a companion character via the 4e rules. We need the extra characters because they wont survive otherwise. So far we are going to have a Dragonborn Paladin, a Dragonborn Sorcerer, a Ranger with some thief skills and a "sword guy". I am thinking the "Sword guy" will be a Warlord to get at the Leader role. But we certainly need a Cleric if for nothing else than for undead battling. Given that this is 4E I do want the roles to be covered. So I have a defender and a couple of strikers, I need a controller and a leader. The "Sword Guy" would work, but I am going to look into all the Leaders we have so far and see what would fit the best. He would love a Swordmage, but that is a defender. Bard is a good choice, but I would really prefer a Cleric I think. I like the Inovker as a potential controller too.
The Raven Queen is going to be a combination of Death from The Endless, the Raven Queen of D&D world and the Morrigan of Celtic Myth. So less like Xena becoming Death and more like Teen Titans' Raven becoming Death. Or some combination. I like the idea of the world's most powerful god being a teenage goth chick. With her being younger it would help my kids relate to her more.
Some things to consider while I look over my adventures and books some more.
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
Revised Plan; Generational Mega Plots
I plan to come back to Cartoon Action Hour here in a bit, but I have something I want to get organized first.
So a while back I posted a plan for the adventures I wanted to run with my family using 4E.
Well since that time, some gaming has happened, some looking over various adventures and some tests on my part has brought me to the conclusion that I can't run some of those old school modules under 4E after all. Certainly I am still working on my current 3.x adventures with my kids.
Now mind you, this is not a bad thing nor is it reflective of the modules, 4e or "Old School".
But it has forced me to change my plans.
So for the "Dragon Slayers" game I am running I'll add some of those classic modules. The characters are all right around 13th level now, with one just on the verge of 10th. The ultimate goal of this game is to defeat Tiamat in the "Graveyard of Dragons". What can I say, my kids like the old D&D cartoon. The rules are under 3.x edition, which has an odd mix of D&D 3.0, with some 3.5, minor bits from Pathfinder, BESM d20 and Star Wars d20 (the revised one that came out after Attack of the Clones).
Also some of these modules are going to be played by me under Pathfinder in either my "Big Kids Group" or the "Little Kids Group". Currently the LKG is going through "B2 The Keep on the Borderlands". I have already used bits of "X1 Ilse of the Dread" and "B4 The Lost City". I know that in the one of the Pathfinder groups we will go through the GDQ series at some point, most likely the Little Kids Group. I will be running "C2 Ghost Tower" under the Doctor Who Adventures in Time and Space game.
After that those characters will retire and their descendants will complete a new Quest. The defeat of Orcus.
I'll run this one under D&D 4E and I do plan on it taking many years.
I am not 100% certain how the adventures will pan out, but I do want to use the D&D4 ones for ease.
Part of this is my desire to have them battle Orcus at the end. Plus I like to overall plot of involving the Raven Queen vs Orcus and Orcus getting a hold of some ancient artifact of Tharizdûn.
Those modules will get them from 1st to 30th level. But I might want to add a couple here and there. Not sure yet since I have not read them all in detail. I also know some people have had issues with these modules, both in terms of how they fit together, plot and playability. So I want to get things that are out now, and then tweak them as I need. Afterall, if this is about fighting Orcus who gets an artifact from ancient Tharizdûn then I can lay some ground work in my 3.x game now for that.
So after all that I have some modules left over.
Like the E series for D&D4, these send you to Orcus's layer to defeat him. Of the lot, H4 would be the best one to use, maybe as a buffer between E2 and E3. The others seem more suited for the Dragon Slayer's Pathfinder game. Of course, I could convert the H1-H4 Bloodstone series to feature Tiamat instead of Orcus. S4 and WG4 are linked and deal with Iggwilv, her Demonomicon and Tharizdûn. They are good to set up the history of Orcus and Tharizdûn. They can happen in either game. In the 4th Ed game I'd stick it in between H and P. CM2 Death's Ride has some cool stuff in it. Good to set up the whole Orcus wants to be a God thing in the 3.x game. Plus it would give me a good arch-nemesis for the characters to fight throughout.
The Ravenloft ones would be great for the Sunsword (a good weapon against the undead) but there is the Board Game coming out and I want it. Plus I'd rather run Ravenloft these days under True20. So I might have to find something similar. If I use the new Tomb of Horrors then I could place a good aligned sword there. There is a D&D4
There is a lot to do and figure out here. But I see this as a good thing. Look at all the time I have. I can plan out a mult-year arc of adventuring that would take my kids all the way to college. Wouldn't have died to have done something like that?
Though I do need to figure out a way to get more dragons into the 4th Ed game for my oldest.
Now this is my attempt to bring Old Schoolers and New Schoolers together.
NEW SCHOOLERS: What things should I be aware of when running the HPE series?
OLD SCHOOLERS: What classic, epic modules are a "must run" for a group of kids that were not even alive when Clinton was in office, let alone Carter. What memory of "D&D" is a must have? Barrier Peeks? Tomb of Horrors?
Clarifications on Games being Played
- "Dragon Slayers" is a 3.x game that I play with my two sons and sometimes my wife joins us. The goal of this game is to defeat Tiamat.
- "Big Kids Game/Group" is a Pathfinder game where I play a Paladin. In this group are my kids and the DM's kids (6 players, 1 DM)
- "Little Kids Game/Group" is a Pathfinder game where I play a Witch (same witch as I do in Dragon Slayers). This is the group with the Problem Player.
Both Pathfinder games have the same DM.
- "Untitled 4th Ed Game" is a 4e game where the players are the same as Dragon Slayers, but the characters are their children or descendants. The goal of this game is to defeat Orcus.
So a while back I posted a plan for the adventures I wanted to run with my family using 4E.
Now mind you, this is not a bad thing nor is it reflective of the modules, 4e or "Old School".
But it has forced me to change my plans.
So for the "Dragon Slayers" game I am running I'll add some of those classic modules. The characters are all right around 13th level now, with one just on the verge of 10th. The ultimate goal of this game is to defeat Tiamat in the "Graveyard of Dragons". What can I say, my kids like the old D&D cartoon. The rules are under 3.x edition, which has an odd mix of D&D 3.0, with some 3.5, minor bits from Pathfinder, BESM d20 and Star Wars d20 (the revised one that came out after Attack of the Clones).
Also some of these modules are going to be played by me under Pathfinder in either my "Big Kids Group" or the "Little Kids Group". Currently the LKG is going through "B2 The Keep on the Borderlands". I have already used bits of "X1 Ilse of the Dread" and "B4 The Lost City". I know that in the one of the Pathfinder groups we will go through the GDQ series at some point, most likely the Little Kids Group. I will be running "C2 Ghost Tower" under the Doctor Who Adventures in Time and Space game.
After that those characters will retire and their descendants will complete a new Quest. The defeat of Orcus.
I'll run this one under D&D 4E and I do plan on it taking many years.
I am not 100% certain how the adventures will pan out, but I do want to use the D&D4 ones for ease.
- H1 Keep on the Shadowfell
- H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth
- H3 Pyramid of Shadows
- P1 King of the Trollhaunt Warrens
- P2 Demon Queen's Enclave
- P3 Assault on Nightwrymn Fortress
- E1 Death's Reach
- E2 Kingdom of the Ghouls
- E3 Prince of Undeath
Part of this is my desire to have them battle Orcus at the end. Plus I like to overall plot of involving the Raven Queen vs Orcus and Orcus getting a hold of some ancient artifact of Tharizdûn.
Those modules will get them from 1st to 30th level. But I might want to add a couple here and there. Not sure yet since I have not read them all in detail. I also know some people have had issues with these modules, both in terms of how they fit together, plot and playability. So I want to get things that are out now, and then tweak them as I need. Afterall, if this is about fighting Orcus who gets an artifact from ancient Tharizdûn then I can lay some ground work in my 3.x game now for that.
So after all that I have some modules left over.
- B3 Palace of the Silver Princess, levels 1-3 (using bits from both the "Green" and "Orange" versions).
- L1 The Secret of Bone Hill, levels 2-4
- X2 Castle Amber, levels 3-6 (place it in the Shadowfell, which is the new Ravenloft anyway)
- I6 Ravenloft, levels 5-7. That is if I don't use it as a convert Ghosts of Albion adventure. Use some of the Ravenloft campaign/world setting stuff here too.
- S2 White Plume Mountain, levels 5-10
- I10 Ravenloft II, House on Gryphon Hill, levels 8-10.
- S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (with some of the info from the 3.5 update), levels 6-10
- WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, levels 5-10
- S1 Tomb of Horrors, levels 10-14 (though I might just wait for the new D&D4 version)
- S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, levels 8-12
- CM2 Death's Ride, levels 15-20.
Then there are these modules:
- H1 Bloodstone Pass, levels 15+
- H2 The Mines of Bloodstone, levels 16-18
- H3 The Bloodstone Wars, levels 17-20
- H4 The Throne of Bloodstone, levels 18-100
Like the E series for D&D4, these send you to Orcus's layer to defeat him. Of the lot, H4 would be the best one to use, maybe as a buffer between E2 and E3. The others seem more suited for the Dragon Slayer's Pathfinder game. Of course, I could convert the H1-H4 Bloodstone series to feature Tiamat instead of Orcus. S4 and WG4 are linked and deal with Iggwilv, her Demonomicon and Tharizdûn. They are good to set up the history of Orcus and Tharizdûn. They can happen in either game. In the 4th Ed game I'd stick it in between H and P. CM2 Death's Ride has some cool stuff in it. Good to set up the whole Orcus wants to be a God thing in the 3.x game. Plus it would give me a good arch-nemesis for the characters to fight throughout.
The Ravenloft ones would be great for the Sunsword (a good weapon against the undead) but there is the Board Game coming out and I want it. Plus I'd rather run Ravenloft these days under True20. So I might have to find something similar. If I use the new Tomb of Horrors then I could place a good aligned sword there. There is a D&D4
There is a lot to do and figure out here. But I see this as a good thing. Look at all the time I have. I can plan out a mult-year arc of adventuring that would take my kids all the way to college. Wouldn't have died to have done something like that?
Though I do need to figure out a way to get more dragons into the 4th Ed game for my oldest.
Now this is my attempt to bring Old Schoolers and New Schoolers together.
NEW SCHOOLERS: What things should I be aware of when running the HPE series?
OLD SCHOOLERS: What classic, epic modules are a "must run" for a group of kids that were not even alive when Clinton was in office, let alone Carter. What memory of "D&D" is a must have? Barrier Peeks? Tomb of Horrors?
Clarifications on Games being Played
- "Dragon Slayers" is a 3.x game that I play with my two sons and sometimes my wife joins us. The goal of this game is to defeat Tiamat.
- "Big Kids Game/Group" is a Pathfinder game where I play a Paladin. In this group are my kids and the DM's kids (6 players, 1 DM)
- "Little Kids Game/Group" is a Pathfinder game where I play a Witch (same witch as I do in Dragon Slayers). This is the group with the Problem Player.
Both Pathfinder games have the same DM.
- "Untitled 4th Ed Game" is a 4e game where the players are the same as Dragon Slayers, but the characters are their children or descendants. The goal of this game is to defeat Orcus.
Monday, January 4, 2010
I Have a Plan…
It's not a great plan, or even a well thought out one, but it is a plan. I am going to be taking my two sons (and now it seems, my wife) on a massive 4th Edition D&D campaign. Yes I know this will take years, but that is fine, I have those years. I am going to place it in my "Mystoerth" world.
Given my penchant for all things horror, I am going to set up the campaign to focus on the ascent of Orcus to godhood. Orcus is a great enemy to have. He is unrepentant evil, his minions are undead and he is full of rage, horror and violence and everything a good upstanding hero would want to stop.
I'd use some of the "new" mythology of Orcus and Raven Queen, plus a bit of my own. But not all would be railroaded plot-driven arcs. My oldest son loves to fight dragons so that would also be there. Plus I want to make this very, very relaxed. The unfolding meta-plot is my extra enjoyment, but I want to do it in such a way that we all have fun.
I am going to place it in my world's version of Glantri. Glantri is from Mystara and in that world was a Principality, now I have at as Theocratic Monarchy where the King is also the head of the Church of State. So basically, Fairy Tale England, or more to the point Fairy Tale Western Europe, since I also have influences of France and Italy here. The Princes are gone, defeated in a coup, but their lands remain ruled by nine dukes under the King. The Dukes are mostly the old family of the Princes, looking for a chance to reclaim power. So I have political intrigue if I want it, but I am going to be keeping my good and evil mostly easy to spot, at least in the beginning. The Dukes allow me to use older Glantri material, I just swap out the terms. Under the Dukes are various landed nobles, typically retired adventures, known as Barons and Counts. My thinking here is to give my boys all the full D&D experiences; so there are knights and dames, courts of intrigue and chivalry, and the way for brave adventurers to return home as heroes. Sure it is not "grim-dark" or even "points of light", but it can be part of the "oncoming darkness".
My world has a Blackmoor, a Desert, a Hyborea, not mention Greyhawk, Glantri and Kara-Tur all in one world. So, more than enough to keep me and my family busy for years to come really. Though there are only four of us, I might have to bring in some others, maybe some of their friends as well. This is one of the main reasons I am going with 4th Edition as opposed to say an older version (the D&D Rules Cyclopedia would be so awesome for this) or another game (like Ghosts of Albion). I am more likely to find others that play 4E than some other game AND it just makes the most sense really given all the tools for 4E out now.
Here is the "Hero Tier" to borrow a phrase. These will be local and be the Mystara flavor of the epic.
Now here would also be a good spot for the DA series Blackmoor adventures for made for the Expert D&D set, but there is a lot of high tech stuff mixed in with those. I might pick and choose things, but I think I am more likely to go with the newer d20 Blackmoor stuff.
The "Epic Tier" is harder, but here some ideas.
Some of the Master level modules (M2, M3 and M5 in particular) look like they would work well. Plus they have the Mystara high fantasy feel that some of the Greyhawk modules don't have.
Of course I would do the Bloodstone series here, just make them harder, maybe even pair them up with the Orcus related adventures for 4e (the new "E" series), though old H4 and new E3 cover a lot of the same ground. I would want to add some other planes adventures here too. So to follow my rule of thumb I should try to find at least 6 more adventures for this tier.
To borrow a Klingon quote, "It will be glorious!"
I'd use some of the "new" mythology of Orcus and Raven Queen, plus a bit of my own. But not all would be railroaded plot-driven arcs. My oldest son loves to fight dragons so that would also be there. Plus I want to make this very, very relaxed. The unfolding meta-plot is my extra enjoyment, but I want to do it in such a way that we all have fun.
I am going to place it in my world's version of Glantri. Glantri is from Mystara and in that world was a Principality, now I have at as Theocratic Monarchy where the King is also the head of the Church of State. So basically, Fairy Tale England, or more to the point Fairy Tale Western Europe, since I also have influences of France and Italy here. The Princes are gone, defeated in a coup, but their lands remain ruled by nine dukes under the King. The Dukes are mostly the old family of the Princes, looking for a chance to reclaim power. So I have political intrigue if I want it, but I am going to be keeping my good and evil mostly easy to spot, at least in the beginning. The Dukes allow me to use older Glantri material, I just swap out the terms. Under the Dukes are various landed nobles, typically retired adventures, known as Barons and Counts. My thinking here is to give my boys all the full D&D experiences; so there are knights and dames, courts of intrigue and chivalry, and the way for brave adventurers to return home as heroes. Sure it is not "grim-dark" or even "points of light", but it can be part of the "oncoming darkness".
My world has a Blackmoor, a Desert, a Hyborea, not mention Greyhawk, Glantri and Kara-Tur all in one world. So, more than enough to keep me and my family busy for years to come really. Though there are only four of us, I might have to bring in some others, maybe some of their friends as well. This is one of the main reasons I am going with 4th Edition as opposed to say an older version (the D&D Rules Cyclopedia would be so awesome for this) or another game (like Ghosts of Albion). I am more likely to find others that play 4E than some other game AND it just makes the most sense really given all the tools for 4E out now.
Here is the "Hero Tier" to borrow a phrase. These will be local and be the Mystara flavor of the epic.
- T1 The Village of Hommlet, levels 1-2. I do have the 4th Edition update for this.
- B1 In Search of the Unknown, levels 1-3 (can run this one in my sleep)
- B2 The Keep on the Borderlands, levels 1-3
- B3 Palace of the Silver Princess, levels 1-3 (using bits from both the "Green" and "Orange" versions).
- L1 The Secret of Bone Hill, levels 2-4
- X1 The Ilse of Dread, levels 3-7
- X2 Castle Amber, levels 3-6 (place it in the Shadowfell, which is the new Ravenloft anyway)
- C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness, levels 5-7. Though I won't run it as a tournament module and that is if I don't use it as a converted Doctor Who adventure.
- I6 Ravenloft, levels 5-7. That is if I don't use it as a convert Ghosts of Albion adventure. Use some of the Ravenloft campaign/world setting stuff here too.
- S2 White Plume Mountain, levels 5-10
- I10 Ravenloft II, House on Gryphon Hill, levels 8-10 (maybe. They might be burned out on undead by this time.)
- S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (with some of the info from the 3.5 update), levels 6-10
- WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, levels 5-10
- S1 Tomb of Horrors, levels 10-14 (though some of the instant kill traps changed, more skill challenges)
- S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, levels 8-12
- G123, Against the Giants, levels 8-12
- D12 Descent into the Depths of the Earth, levels 9-14
- D3 Vault of the Drow, levels 10-14
- Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits, levels 10-14
- CM2 Death's Ride, levels 15-20. This sets up the next tier, or I could even make this the start of the next tier and keep the Epic levels nothing but Gygaxian Greyhawk. I like that idea.
Now here would also be a good spot for the DA series Blackmoor adventures for made for the Expert D&D set, but there is a lot of high tech stuff mixed in with those. I might pick and choose things, but I think I am more likely to go with the newer d20 Blackmoor stuff.
The "Epic Tier" is harder, but here some ideas.
Some of the Master level modules (M2, M3 and M5 in particular) look like they would work well. Plus they have the Mystara high fantasy feel that some of the Greyhawk modules don't have.
Of course I would do the Bloodstone series here, just make them harder, maybe even pair them up with the Orcus related adventures for 4e (the new "E" series), though old H4 and new E3 cover a lot of the same ground. I would want to add some other planes adventures here too. So to follow my rule of thumb I should try to find at least 6 more adventures for this tier.
- H1 Bloodstone Pass, levels 15+
- H2 The Mines of Bloodstone, levels 16-18
- H3 The Bloodstone Wars, levels 17-20
- H4 The Throne of Bloodstone, levels 18-100
- B4 The Lost City, levels 1-3 (though I am using this one now in 3.5)
- I3 Pharaoh, levels 5-7
- I4 Oasis of the White Palm, levels 6-8
- I5 Lost Tomb of Martek, levels 7-9
- X4 Master of the Desert Nomads, levels 6-9
- X5 Temple of Death, levels 6-10
- I9 Day of Al'Akbar, level 8-10. Useful for the Cup and Talisman of Al'Akbar.
To borrow a Klingon quote, "It will be glorious!"
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