Showing posts with label In Search of. Show all posts
Showing posts with label In Search of. Show all posts

Tuesday, September 23, 2025

In Search Of... Castle Greyhawk

 I started this post once before, but I am returning to it now. Especially now with so much new Castle Greyhawk material to be had.  I also wanted to do another of my In Search Of... feature.

Castles Greyhawk

In Search Of... Castle Greyhawk

Castle Greyhawk has been a quasi-mythical dungeon. It did exist, in one form or another, and was part of Gary Gygax's own D&D campaign. It was rumored to be anywhere between 13 levels, to 70 to 100s of levels. It was merged with Rob Kuntz's "El Raja Key" at some point and made even larger. The full Castle Greyhawk had always been promised to us but only partially delivered. I'll have some links below so you can read more on all of these topics.

The Published Castles Greyhawk

Despite never getting a full and proper publication, many Castles Greyhawk have existed over the years. Some official, others...well, less so, but all fit the spirit of the idea of Castle Greyhawk. I will cover them below with my own experiences.

WG7 Castle Greyhawk
WG7 Castle Greyhawk

I remember being quite excited about this one. The *real* Castle Greyhawk. Finally! Well...that is not the case, really. I like humor in my games, but this was not a great adventure nor a particularly good "joke" one. There are some good bits here. I loved the idea of multiple levels. I loved the idea of a different author/designer taking on each one. Some of the levels were also fun send-ups of my early D&D tropes like "The Temple of Really Bad Dead Things." Sadly, it all never really worked.

Getting different designers to cover each level was fun in theory. They never connected at all. Some were even so bad that I had my players bypass them altogether. For example, when they got to Level 8, I put a "handwritten" sign (in ketchup, no less) up outside the entryway saying, "Food fight in progress, please proceed to Level 9."  Eventually, the whole thing collapsed under the weight of its own silliness. 

There are some good ideas here. There are some good hooks, and I like the introduction and the first level. Though I do remember some awkwardness in the transitions between levels. One I recall was Level 10, which assumed that you had gone all the way back up to Level 1. Seemed to run counter to the stated reality of the adventure. The maps are good, the art, for the most part, is fun, and again, pulling it all apart to make a bunch of unrelated mini-adventures might be the way to go.

However, I can't help but think that there was a little bit of vindictiveness in having such a high-profile and "bad" adventure carry the name Castle Greyhawk come out in the days after Gary Gygax had been let go.  Given that the previous WG7 was supposed to have been a high-level adventure from Gygax called Shadowlands. There is a lot of evidence against this, but thinking back to 1988 and knowing that Gary had been booted. Plus, at the time, I was connecting with other gamers from all over the state, and we shared our pre-Internet opinions. Well, conclusions, truthful or erroneous, can be drawn, and opinions die hard.

Don't misunderstand me; I know Gary loved a good funhouse dungeon. And really, is this one any more ridiculous than "Tomb of Horrors" or the really awful puns in the graveyard of Castle Ravenloft? This one, however, feels like a bridge too far.  It was too bad, really. I was in the midst of my "Greyhawk renaissance" at the time, and I wanted to consume anything and everything related to Greyhawk, but mostly official Greyhawk material, rather than the pastiche I had built over the years. 

I had a copy, but I lost it many years ago, and I recently reacquired my copy from my old DM's collection. I have the PDF, but I never had a desire to grab a new PoD version. However, I did think about it back in my early days working with Eden Studios, when I read the WitchCraft short story "The House that Dripped Clichés." I wanted to make something good of the Castle Greyhawk adventure. But ultimately, I reasoned I would be better off making my own. Thankfully, I didn't have to.

WGR1 Greyhawk Ruins (2e)

After the misfire of WG7 Castle Greyhawk, TSR had another go at presenting the legendary dungeon in print. This time, in 1990, they gave us WGR1 Greyhawk Ruins, written by Blake Mobley and Timothy Brown, for 2nd Edition AD&D.

On the surface, this one looked like a course correction. Gone was the parody tone, gone were the ketchup-smeared signs, and in their place was a serious attempt to frame Castle Greyhawk as an honest-to-goodness megadungeon. The adventure describes the ruins of the Castle aboveground, and beneath them, three partially intact towers that served as gateways to the deeper dungeon levels.

This felt much closer to what I had always imagined Castle Greyhawk to be. The presentation was straightforward: keyed maps, monsters, treasure, and plenty of challenges. In many ways, it’s a classic meat-and-potatoes dungeon crawl, and for DMs who wanted a usable Greyhawk megadungeon without wading through parody, it delivered.

But there were two problems. First, no published module could ever live up to the myth of Castle Greyhawk by this point. Gamers had been hearing about Gary’s original for over fifteen years, and expectations had grown to impossible heights. Second, the stink of WG7 still lingered. After being burned once, many fans weren’t ready to embrace a new “official” Castle so soon. That left Greyhawk Ruins in a tough spot: serious in tone, expansive in scope, but struggling to shake off its predecessor’s shadow.

I also have to admit, I’ve never been a fan of the cover. It doesn’t capture the sense of awe and menace I wanted from the ruins of the game's greatest dungeon. Inside, though, the content is solid. Twenty-five plus levels of dungeon to explore, each with its own flavor, from ruined laboratories to caverns crawling with monsters. It’s not subtle, but it is dangerous, and it can easily keep a party busy for years of game time.

Looking back, WGR1 Greyhawk Ruins represents the first truly earnest attempt to give us Castle Greyhawk as an actual megadungeon. It wasn’t Gary’s Castle, and it wasn’t Rob’s either, but it was playable, and it kept Greyhawk alive at the table in the early 2e era. For me, it feels like the first step toward reclaiming the myth after WG7, even if it never stood a chance of satisfying everyone’s expectations.

This is another old adventure of mine that was in the collection of my old DM. I think I bought it with the idea that he would run me through it, but it was the 1990s, and I was still finishing up my undergrad studies and likely never got around to it.

Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk

By the time 2007 rolled around, I had already been through the highs and lows of Castle Greyhawk in print. WG7 had left a sour taste, WGR1 had done some course correction, but the mythical real Castle Greyhawk still seemed just out of reach. Then came Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk for D&D 3.5. On paper, this was the one that might finally get it right.

This was a big (224 pages), glossy hardcover and part of Wizards’ “Expedition” series that included Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, and Expedition to Undermountain. These books were meant to be love letters to classic adventures, rebuilt for the then-current edition. And with writers like Jason Bulmahn, James Jacobs, and Erik Mona (names I respected then and now), I had reason to hope.

The book immediately set itself apart from WG7’s funhouse antics. Instead of a parody, it gave us a full-on campaign, a sprawling dungeon crawl combined with political intrigue in the Free City of Greyhawk. Iuz, Zagyg, my ex-girlfriend Iggwilv, and even Zuoken show up, giving the adventure cosmic stakes beyond just “loot the dungeon.” It’s pitched for characters of about 8th–13th level, which honestly felt right. By that point, adventurers are strong enough to tangle with demigods, but not so epic that the whole thing feels like a superhero comic.

The design is ambitious. You don’t just get dungeon rooms mapped and keyed; you get partial maps, encounter tables, and plenty of blank space to make the Castle your own. That’s clever; it echoes the fact that Gary’s original Castle Greyhawk was never static. It was a living, changing environment, tailored to the players at the table. Of course, the downside is obvious: if you're looking for a completely mapped, plug-and-play megadungeon, you won’t find it here. DMs had to be ready to improvise and prep.

I ran pieces of it rather than the whole campaign. Some of the encounters, especially with the new monsters (the aurumvorax got a facelift here, and the cataboligne demon was nasty), were deadly even for 13th-level PCs. My players loved that sense of danger, though — it felt like the dungeon had teeth again.

But did it finally give us the “real” Castle Greyhawk? Well. That depends on what you were hoping for. If you wanted Gary’s original notes, this wasn’t it. If you wanted a megadungeon that was both a campaign centerpiece and a love letter to Greyhawk lore, it largely delivered. It felt like Mona and Jacobs, in particular, were saying, “Yes, Greyhawk matters. Here’s why.”

I remember closing the book after my first read-through and thinking: this is probably as close as we’re ever going to get to a “canon” Castle Greyhawk. Not Gary’s, not Rob’s, but a 3rd Edition interpretation that pulled from the mythos, built a strong framework, and left room for each DM to add their own touch. Say what you like about 3rd Edition, but at the time, respect for Gary was at an all-time high. 

Thankfully, it was not the last word. 

Castle of the Mad Archmage

If Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk was Wizards of the Coast’s official attempt to canonize the Castle for 3rd Edition, then Castle of the Mad Archmage was the fan-driven answer — and in many ways, it feels closer to the dream of a “true” Castle Greyhawk than anything TSR or WotC ever put out.

Joseph Bloch, the “Greyhawk Grognard,” originally released Castle of the Mad Archmage starting in 2009. His idea was simple: if Wizards of the Coast wouldn't and TSR couldn't (because they were gone) give us the real Castle, then he would build one in the old school spirit, level by level, and let people play in it. Later, he expanded and polished the whole into a professional print version through his company, BRW Games. You honestly have to admire that. 

Castle of the Mad Archmage

This is a megadungeon in the classic sense, sprawling, multi-layered, with dozens of levels stacked on top of each other. Unlike WGR1 or Expedition, Bloch’s Castle doesn’t pull back. It goes all in. If you want a dungeon that feels like it could go on forever, with weird sub-levels, eccentric monsters, and dangerous tricks, this is it. The DNA is clearly Gygaxian: funhouse elements mixed with deadliness, nods to pulp fantasy, and the sense that anything could be around the next corner.

When I first cracked it open, I remember thinking: “This is what I wanted WG7 to be.” It’s not parody. It’s not restrained to three towers. It’s not half-mapped. It’s a full megadungeon you could run a whole campaign in, or strip for parts if that’s more your style. And it’s very much meant for old-school play, resource management, exploration, and danger at every turn.

Is it Gary’s Castle Greyhawk? No, of course not. But in spirit, it comes closer than most. Bloch captures that sense of scale and unpredictability that the Castle always promised. For me, this book represents what the fan community can do when official channels fall short: keep the torch burning, keep the dungeons sprawling, and keep Greyhawk alive at the table.

Now I am a bigger fan of "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk" than Joseph is. But I am happy to have both in my collection.

There are several "flavors" to choose from to suit your gaming needs.

There will likely be more.

Castles & Crusades Castle Zagyg Yggsburgh
Castles & Crusades Castle Zagyg Yggsburgh

When Gary Gygax himself returned to publishing in the early 2000s, hope flared again that we might finally see his Castle Greyhawk the original megadungeon that started it all. Of course, Wizards of the Coast owned the Greyhawk name, so Gary couldn’t publish it directly. Instead, he partnered with Troll Lord Games and released it under the title Castle Zagyg (Zagyg being Gary’s famous mad archmage, his own anagram).

The first product in this line was Castle Zagyg: Yggsburgh in 2005. Rather than plunge straight into dungeon levels, this hefty book detailed the city of Yggsburgh, Gary’s version of the Free City of Greyhawk. It was written for Castles & Crusades, Troll Lord’s ruleset that deliberately hewed close to the feel of old-school AD&D, but conversion to earlier editions was painless.

Yggsburgh wasn’t the dungeon itself, but it was meant to set the stage: a living, breathing city that adventurers could use as their home base before venturing into the nearby Castle. The book offered districts, NPCs, and hooks galore. For those of us who had been following the “Castle Greyhawk saga” for decades, it was tantalizing. At last, we had something directly from Gary’s hand.

The plan was to follow this up with the dungeon levels themselves, released as boxed sets under the Castle Zagyg name. A few pieces trickled out, Castle Zagyg: The East Mark Gazetteer and The Upper Works (2008), before Gary’s death in March 2008. After that, the line was discontinued. For various reasons that I don't really need to get into now the line would remain dead for the next 15 years.

Yggsburgh Maps

Yggsburgh Maps

In 2023, Troll Lord Games released a 256-page Classic Reprint of Yggsburgh through DriveThruRPG and their own website, making this long out-of-print title available again to fans who missed it the first time. It’s a facsimile edition, preserving the original text and layout; a chance to finally own one of the last projects Gary worked on. Not only that, the maps are by none other than Darlene herself.

So, what we got in Yggsburgh was a glimpse of what could have been: Gary’s vision of the city that would sit at the foot of his legendary Castle. The megadungeon itself never fully saw print. That fact alone makes this one bittersweet. Reading through Yggsburgh now, you can see the connective tissue to Greyhawk, but also Gary striking out on his own terms, freed from TSR and later WotC.

For me, Castle Zagyg: Yggsburgh is less about the content (though it’s rich with Gary’s flavor and quirks) and more about the promise it represented. We almost had the real thing. We almost got to walk the halls of the original Castle with Gary as our guide. Instead, we’re left with fragments. 

And the myth grows ever larger.

How to Reconcile All These Castles Greyhawk?

Regardless of what version of Castle Greyhawk you prefer, someone else has a different opinion. How can we have ALL the Castles Greyhawk in a game? 

Well. We borrow from the real world. 

Zagig Yragerne as Ludwig II of Bavaria

Known as "The Mad Archmage," Zagig Yragerne was the builder of Castle Greyhawk. But what if the Mad Archmage had something in common with another famously "Mad" person? In particular King Ludwig II of Bavaria, also known as "The Mad King."  Why was he mad? He built castles. Lavish ones at that.  Neuschwanstein CastleLinderhof Palace, and Herrenchiemsee. Neuschwanstein is a "fairy tale" castle and is the model for the castles of Disney World and Disneyland. There is even a tenuous connection to Castle Falkenstien here that I might explore later on. 

So what if all the Castle Greyhawks are real? All were built by Zagig Yragerne, and all of them were called at one point or another "Castle Greyhawk?"

Which leads me to my next thought.

Castle Greyhawk as a Pan-Dimensional Altgeld Hall

On five Illinois college campuses, castles were built during the time of Gov. John Altgeld. These buildings are all called Altgeld Hall, and all resemble Gothic Revival Castles. There has been a long-standing rumor that you could take these buildings and put them together to form one massive castle. There is no evidence of this, but it was a powerful idea. Plus, having walked by Altgeld Hall at SIUC for years, it left a powerful image. One too good to ignore. 

What if all of the various Castles Greyhawk are connected somehow? Not like I suggested with the Temple of Elemental Evil (one location that exists simultaneously across multiple realities), but one supermassive structure built in different pieces in different locations. 

What was Zagig trying to accomplish? Was he going to build these different castles and link them? Merge them across time and space? This may explain why WGR1 Greyhawk Ruins and Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk have similar maps in some places but very different ones in others.

Maybe I could tie this into my whole idea of Erde/Oerth/Arth/Urt/Learth/Ærth, where there is a Castle Greyhawk on the various connecting planes, and they are the point of contact. From the Castle's perspective, it is one massive structure; it's just that mortals only see what is on their own plane. Now, are the castles there because the planes are connected? OR are the planes connected because the  Castles are there? 

There is at least some published evidence to this. Erde/Aihrde, the world of Castles & Crusades, has its own Castle Yggsburgh, AND for a time, they were the publisher of Lejendary Adventures. So maybe Erde/Aihrde is what I jokingly refer to as Learth. 

Frank Mentzer gave us Urt, an earlier name for Mystara which is Earth circa 150 MYA. And we know that he was working on the other side of Oerth; Aquaria. It is not a stretch then that there is a Castle Greyhawk on Mystara/Urt too. Those with the knowledge can move from to the next and thus cross realities.  NOTE: I am not going to explain why Empyrea failed here. There are more sites on the net that have gone over that far more in-depth than I will or even want too. 

By this logic, there could be more Castles Greyhawk out there in the D&D multiverse just waiting to be discovered. 

In Search Of the Real Castle Greyhawk

At the end of this long journey through the printed Castles Greyhawk, I keep coming back to the same realization: there was never just one Castle Greyhawk. Every attempt to capture it on paper; from the parody of WG7, to the earnest sprawl of WGR1 Greyhawk Ruins, to the ambitious but incomplete Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk, to Joseph Bloch’s Castle of the Mad Archmage, and finally Gary’s own Castle Zagyg: Yggsburgh; all circle the same mythic source but never quite touch it.

Part of that is simple: Gary’s Castle was never a finished product. It was a living dungeon, reshaped by play, rebuilt after disasters, improvised week after week for the players in his original group. You can’t publish that experience whole cloth. At best, you can give glimpses, fragments, or homages. It will never be the late 1970s in Lake Geneva, WI ever again.

But maybe that’s the true legacy of Castle Greyhawk. Not the maps, or the monsters, or the towers above the Free City, but the idea that the dungeon is never done. It’s always changing, always waiting for the next group of adventurers to descend into its depths. Every version we’ve looked at, official or unofficial, serious or silly, carries a spark of that truth.

Gary himself got closest with Castle Zagyg, and though his death left that project unfinished, what we did get reminds us that the Castle was never about completeness. It was about potential. It was about mystery. It was about a group of players gathered around a table, wondering what lay behind the next door.

So, in a sense, the real Castle Greyhawk has always been with us. It’s in every megadungeon we map, every ruin we stock with monsters, every campaign we launch into the unknown. The Castle is a myth, yes, but it’s a myth that keeps inspiring us to build, to imagine, and to play.

And maybe that’s the best tribute of all.

Links

This is not an exhaustive list, it is the one I used when researching this post. 


Thursday, February 13, 2025

In Search Of...Drelnza, Iggwilv's Treasure

Drelnza, Iggwilv's Treasure
Drelnza holding Daoud's Wondrous Lanthorn aloft.
Art by Jeff Easley, 2012.
My son is getting ready to run Module S4, The Lost Caverns of Tsojconth, one of my all-time favorite adventures. And as it turns out I recently re-acquired my original S4 from my old DM's collection. So I have that, the 5e version from Quests from the Infinite Staircase, the 3e extension, and other variants so I am well prepared to help him out.

Then he asked about Drelnza.

Of course I know who she is in the context of this adventure. I know who she is in relationship to Iggwilv, but beyond that...there is just not a lot about her. So I set out to discover more. Was she once a Lawful Good Paladin? Who was her father? How did she become a vampire? I might not be able to answer all these questions, but I will give them a try as I go In Search of Drelnza, Iggwilv's Treasure.

In Search Of...Drelnza, Iggwilv's Treasure

What can we say we know for certain?

Drelnza (sometimes Drelzna) is a vampire found in the spherical chamber guarding Iggwilv's stash of magical treasure. 

She is called "Iggwilv's Treasure" and is her daughter. Whether that is a biological daughter can be debated.

 She is a standard vampire in the original S4 for AD&D 1st Ed. In later editions, she gets a few upgrades, including fighter (or Samurai) levels and a really powerful sword (named "Heretic").

What is tantalizing about her is how little we really know. 

From reading the original Winter Con V version of the adventure, we do know that she was originally just a "vampiress lord" sleeping on a stone slab, a bit like Sleeping Beauty, and designed to catch the characters and players off guard. It is a ruse that is only likely to be used once and lampooned in the later Castle Greyhawk adventure "Temple of Really Bad Dead Things."

Outside of that, there is very, very little about her in the adventure itself. However, I have learned that on Oerth-Prime, she was killed by Melf.

Drelnza - Quests from the Infinite Staircase
Drelnza's Life and Unlife

Nearly nothing is known here. We have one tidbit of information, though. The warlock Mary Greymalkin is the daughter of Drelnza and an Eladrin. This makes Mary the grand-daughter of Iggwilv. Something I should explore more. 

According to the Dastardly Decimal System Podcast, Drelnza was a warrior Princess. I like the idea of her being something akin to Xena. 

In any case, she must have had Mary while she was young, which means she is not a very old vampire at all.

Who's Your Daddy?

Gary never confirmed, or even really knew, who Drelnza's father was. He firmly left that in the hands of the players to decide in their own games if they ever felt the need.  According to Dragon Magazine #336 (October 2005), Drelnza was born between 481 and 491 CY. But this seems really late into Iggwilv's rule of Perrenland and not long enough ago to be "centuries" since Iggwilv was last seen. Reminder the "current" year in Greyhawk is considered to be 591 CY.  

In the article "History Check: The Iggwilv-Graz’zt Affair" from Dragon #414 it is stated that her father is still unknown and she might be the only being in the multi-verse Iggwilv ever truly loved.  So I'd like to think she was born early enough in Tasha's/Iggwilv's life when she was still capable of loving someone. 

Let's say that Iggwilv conquers Perrenland with her undead army in 481 CY. She is a Queen, but she needs a general, and who better to be a general of her undead army than her own vampire daughter, who also happens to be an excellent fighter (or even paladin/anti-paladin). 

So, her exact date of birth is really in question (by me), but honestly, I would push it back to the 460s or even the 450s. This would give Drelnza time to grow into a woman, have her own child (Mary), and then get turned into a vampire, likely something caused by Iggwilv herself. 

As for her father, there are many interesting prospects here. Let's look at them one by one.

Graz'zt

He has been the father of Iuz since his time with Iggwilv, but it is almost universally agreed that he is not the father of Drelnza.

Mordenkainen

Now here is an interesting idea. I like the idea that Iggwilv, maybe when she was still known as Tasha, and Mordenkainen having an illicit affair resulting in a daughter. The basic trouble here is one of timing. Back when Iggwilv/Tasha was young she had not met Graz'zt yet and it widely held that Iuz is older than Drelnza. Unless Drelnza is older, but was turned into a vampire and the age refers to her "living" age. Still...the timing is not exactly right. 

Tasha and Mordenkainen

Ok. So not Drelnza's father, but maybe there is another child out there where Mordy and Tasha are the parents. Maybe this is the origin of the "Son of Pohjola" who she gave birth to on an alternate Earth?

Orcus

This is who I went with when I created the Noidan Tytär, or the Daughters of Iggwilv. However, I think I will stick with this for Iggwilv's Nine Daughters. I feel less inclined these days to make Drelnza among their number. This means Noidan Tytär, Iuz, and Drelnza are all half-siblings.

Tsojcanth

We also don't have many details on who Tsojcanth was. The ever-helpful OSR Grimoire features a bit of an interview with Gary about Tsojcanth, stating he was a powerful wizard, and almost certainly Good and human. This contradicts what is presented in Iggwilv's Legacy: The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. I am more inclined to go with Gary's notion that Tsojcanth was human and good if not Lawful Good. The "fiend" Tsojcanth feels lazy and dull to me. Not to say he was not corrupted later on, but it still feels lazy. Plus it just means that Tsojcanth is the same as Iuz, only instead of Graz'zt and Iggwilv it is Fraz-Urb'luu and Vilhara. Even down to the imprisoning. No. We can do better. 

I am more likely to go with Tsojcanth dying and Fraz-Urb'luu pretending to be Tsojcanth turned evil.

So let's say Tsojcanth was a lawful good wizard. Iggwilv in her search for more power seduces and corrupts him (she is evil, after all) but there is an unexpected consequence; Drelnza. Drelnza becomes a fighter, no, a lawful good Paladin, until Iggwilv twists her into her "treasure" and makes her a chaotic evil Anti-Paladin Vampire.

I like it. It is evil, devious, and filled with tragedy. 

BUT the dates don't work here either since Tsojcanth was also supposed to have been dead for centuries. 

Lerrek

One last choice comes from The Oerth Journal. In Issue #13 Lerrek (and sometimes "Lerrik") is mentioned as the father of "Drelzna." According to author Andy Seale (aka Fallon, Ranger-Sage of the Vesve), Drelzna was born in 453 CY. 

Now this is from a fan publication, but the Oerth Journal has some weight behind it, and in the absence of other details we might as well use it. 

Given her two "birth" years, I am going to say she was born in 453 CY and turned into a vampire between 481 and 491 CY. That 453 CY works well with my own thoughts on when she should have been born. 

Drelnza's Character sheet

Ultimately, I guess it doesn't really matter who Drelnza's father was. The more important relationship is between her and her mother Iggwilv.

In the current state of things, Iggwilv is shedding her past to become the new Arch Fey Zybilna, and her alignment is drifting from Chaotic Evil to Chaotic Neutral. I guess we all slow down as we get older. While it is often stated that Iggwilv truly loved her daughter, I don't think there would really be a joyous family reunion even if Drelnza had somehow survived. 

Still. I would like to say she did somehow and is still out there somewhere in the Multi-verse. Is she searching for her mother? And if so what will happen if they meet up again after so many years apart?

Sounds like something I might want to run someday.

Drelnza welcomes the characters to Iggwilv's treasure room

Links


Drelnza sleeps


Thursday, October 31, 2024

In Search Of...TSR's R.I.P.

TSR's R.I.P.
 Spend any time in horror RPG communities or the classic TSR communities; sooner or later, the topic of R.I.P. will come up.  But what is/was R.I.P., and why was it never published?

These are the questions I will try to answer on this special Halloween edition of In Search Of...

In Search Of...TSR's R.I.P.

So, what do we know about this game? Very little to be honest.

  • It is modern-day horror. 
  • Slated to be published in 1991
  • Trademark was applied for in 1990.
  • Written by Scott Herring [sic], Jim Ward, and Paul A. Linberg [sic]
  • At least one accessory, Lost Souls, was planned and another, a set of cards, were mentioned.

And that is really about it. From the TSRArchive, we learned that it was going to be a boxed set with 32, 64, and 96-page rule books. Dice, cards and fold out maps. I am speculating here that the books were some combination of a fast-play Basic set of rules, complete rules, and possibly an adventure. But that is only a guess. There could have been Game Master's books and a creature book. IF we are to follow the clues from Top Secret, it would have been a Player's book (96), a Game Master's book (64), and maybe an equipment book or world guide.

This is only a guess. Afterall they misspelled two of the three authors on the cover. 

Scott Haring is known for his contributions to GURPS, Dragonlance, Mystara, and the Forgotten Realms. His contributions to Top Secret S.I., Agent 13 and Ghostbusters might interest us more here today though. 

Jim Ward was the creator of Metamorphosis Alpha; he also wrote a lot of material for D&D and then would later move on to various publishers, including Troll Lord Games.  In particular to this conversation Ward designed the "Tainted Lands" horror setting for Castles & Crusades. James died earlier this year on March 18, 2024.

Paul Arden Lidberg was one of the founders of Crunchy Frog Enterprises/Team Frog Studios. He also worked on many games and was part of the TSR West group with Flint Dille for a brief time. He went on to create the games Critter Commandos and Duel. Paul died on June 13, 2022.

Now we do know there is a history of TSR padding their product schedules.  David "Zeb" Cook recently stated at Gamehole Con that he would come up with names of products and other writers developers would have to figure out what that meant. This seems slightly more than that, but not by much. You can't even trust the art. TSR catalogs often had concept or placeholder art in place of a product. That is not an uncommon thing really.  The "blue" Rules Cyclopedia cover is a good example.

In the early 1990s we know TSR was feeling the heat from the new kid on the block, Vampire the Masquerade. I have been talking about the effects of that game and White Wolf all month long in my Ravenloft retrospective. 1987's "Lost Boys" and "Near Dark" showed that vampire movies were still popular and there were certainly rumors about the upcoming Francis Ford Coppola Bram Stoker's Dracula scheduled for 1992. Even Chill saw new 2nd Edition from long time thorn in TSR's side, Mayfair Games. The time was ripe for a supernatural game. 

We do know from many sources, notably Steve Winter, that next to nothing was produced for the game, beyond this cover mock-up. There are no files siting on a 5.25" floppy somewhere and no dot-matrix print out of chapter 1 or anything like that. I do think we have seen everything about this game, save for maybe some TSR inter-office notes or emails that likely no longer exist. 

There are two product codes that appeared in the TSR catalogs for this.

Here is the text featured, along with the art from the cover.

"Nobody's safe. The undead disregard today's best high-tech security and surveillance systems. These demons attack helpless victims as they sleep - their electronic fences and computers buzz through the night. This horror and much, much more fill the R.I.P. role-playing game. This all-new game awaits horror fans with three rules booklets, full-color cards, dice and maps that spin a tale in modern-day terror."

This is our best clue to what the game was going to be about. But it is not the only one.

The R.I.P. Comics

Our best guesses at the tone and tenor of the game come from the R.I.P. Comics produced by TSR a couple of years before.  Two four-issue series were released. And because I care about you, my faithful readers, I scored 3/4ths of them. 

R.I.P. Comics

What can we say about the comics?

  • There were two series of four for a total of 8 comics.
  • Described as "Comics Modules." 
  • Published around the same time TSR had a comics deal with DC.
  • Each had some game related content, sometimes Top Secret/S.I. related, sometimes standalone. 
  • Flint Dille, brother of Lorraine Williams, was the creative director. 

Flint Dille also wrote the Agent 13, Top Secret/S.I. tie-in media, Agent 13: The Midnight Avenger

Now I am being honest here, the comics are not very good. But that is fine, because I am not interested in that. Why I bought these was for the last section of the comics, the game materials. The comic themselves feel a bit like Tales From the Crypt.

In Issue #1 (I will just number these 1 to 8 for ease), has notes for adapting the Top Secret/S.I. part 1 by Scott Haring. This first section details the type of horror game you might want to run. There is nothing particular to the TS/SI rules here, just campaign modes.

Issue #2 shares the same art as the proposed TSR07406: Lost Souls book. This includes the Zombie Hunt game, with rules in the center and a play board on the inside covers, and tokens. Part 2 of our TS/SI aka Role-Play in Peace, section covers some new advantages and disadvantages. Mostly for dealing with the supernatural. They promise more are coming, just write to TSR West.

Issue #3 adds to the Zombie Hunt game with Zombie Rampage. For TS/SI we get some new skills and some Powers as described in the Agent 13 book. This game takes the Chill 2nd edition approach and has the Powers limited to "the bad guys." You know it would not stay that way for long.  Powers here are treated like Skills.  

Nearly unreadable text from Issue #4
Issue #4 gives us some monsters. Or at least I would like to say it does. The trouble is the text is small and printed on a color background that is almost impossible to read. I tried a lot of different filters and skill could barely read it. We get Vampires, Werewolves, Frankenstein's Monster and a Mad Slasher.

The Zombie Nation game, a continuation of the zombie games from Issue #1 is written by Paul A. Lidberg.

Issue #5 (or 1 of the second series) features more Role-Play in Peace with some Monster powers by Scott Haring AND a R.I.P. collector card game by Paul Lidberg, which could be the same as TSR07405: R.I.P. Horror Card Game listed above.

Issue #7 (I do not own Issues #6 or #8) includes a solitaire game called The Crypt by Paul Lidberg and a page of a new power (Cause Madness) for Top Secret/S.I.

Now, this certainly begs the question. Was the only material written for the R.I.P. RPG sitting before me right now?

The R.I.P. RPG

It would be folly to try and guess what the completed R.I.P. RPG would have been like, AND would we have called "Rip" or "Are Eye Pea?" But that doesn't mean I can't make some guesses. Especially given some of the Vampire:TM "catch-up" TSR was doing at the time with Ravenloft. For the record, "Are Eye Pea."

Obviously, the biggest, and maybe the most error-prone guess, is that the system used would have been some version of TSR's Top Secret/S.I. RPG. I mean there is no reason to assume it would have been this, comics examples aside, especially since TSR had a history of using a different system for each and every game. BUT maybe with the new Top Secret/S.I. TSR saw a way into modern games. The comics certainly give at least some lip service to this. 

My other "evidence" is the product codes. R.I.P. had the 74xx line and Top Secret/S.I. covered the 76xx numbers. Not that this is solid evidence save for the fact they were all "in production" at the same time.

I think a safer guess is that Vampires would have played a bigger role in this than what little evidence we have. I have stated in the my reviews of Van Richten's Guide to Vampires and Children of the Night Vampires that TSR was well aware of the growing popularity of Vampires and Vampire RPGs. While we know the the production teams were often siloed and unaware of what the others were doing, who knows what would have become of Ravenloft if R.I.P. had been a hit? Would Ravenloft still have been produced? Would we have seen Gothic Earth for R.I.P. instead? 

What can I speculate about this game?

Well, there are certainly tie-ins to the Agent 13 sourcebook. In fact, a 1990s update to that is not just a safe bet but likely the only safe bet. 

The Agent 13 novels are throwbacks to the pulps of the 30s, save without the charm of being from the 30s. I mean, they were throwbacks in the late 80s, but I am not sure they would have fared much better in the 90s. So, the new R.I.P., even if it builds on the mythos of that brand, would need to be thoughtfully updated. The Lemuria origins of the Brotherhood would still be fine. Even the evil takeover of the Brotherhood. Given the 90s, I expect to see more about the Freemasons, the Templars, and plenty of other secret groups. Agent 13 portrayed heroes and villains in terms of black and white. R.I.P. would likely do something similar. While other horror games of this time (Chill 2nd Ed, Vampire, Kult, SLA, CoC) were embracing shades of gray, they were all fairly dark. No one was "pure good," but I do see TSR, especially TSR of the early 90s, trying to push a "PCs are good guys" narrative. 

For monsters, I am sure there will be vampires, werewolves, Frankenstein's monster(s), zombies, and very likely succubi. I would also expect to see all sorts of "high tech" monsters too, like brains kept alive via advanced machinery, "Borg"-like monsters, and maybe even monsters caused by modern problems like global warming and pollution. Would the monsters be well known to normal humans? I can see different campaign modes that allow this or keep them secret. I think our best evidence of this is to look toward Ravenloft for AD&D 2nd Ed. 

One thing that is very easy to guess is that I am sure there will be more skills regarding Occult sciences and powers that "agents" can take. These would be limited, but more skills than the ones seen in the Agent 13 book. Again, I think the model here would be what Chill or SLA Industries were doing in the 90s. 

I would also expect to see a re-print and expansion of all the different types of campaign settings mentioned in the comic. From humor to slasher flicks, to monster hunters to cosmic horror. It is the 1990s, but the X-Files are still a couple of years off (1993), so I am not expecting Governmental and Alien conspiracies just yet. I would expect a group of some sort the PCs could work with. Like ORION from Top Secret/S.I. or even SAVE from Chill.

Given what we saw in Top Secret/S.I., Agent 13, and later in AD&D 2nd Ed Ravenloft, I fully suspect that there was going to be some secretive shadowy organization bent on World DominationTM, that is, if they didn't already control everything, whom the characters will have to fight the agents of. Whether this takes the shape of The Brotherhood or something more akin to the Dark Powers is difficult to guess. It is likely would be skewed more to the Brotherhood side.

In truth, we will never know. With 2/3rds of the writing team gone, the company gone, and the persistent suspicion that nothing was ever really produced for it there is not enough to go on.

But I think I will see if the idea has any legs all the same. Check back tomorrow.  

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RPG Blog Carnival

This post is my last entry for my October RPG Blog Carnival: Horror and Fantasy.. I hoped you enjoyed. I'll post a wrap-up for it tomorrow as well.

RPG Blog Carnival


HAPPY HALLOWEEN!

Thursday, October 10, 2024

In Search Of...Barovia (Ravenloft)

 I have been talking about the AD&D 2nd Edition campaign setting Ravenloft. Every domain in the Land of Mists / Domain of Dread is a copy of some land from one of the other campaign worlds. Darkon and Tovag are copies of old Oerth. Hazlan and I'Cath are from the Forgotten Realms; Thay and Kara-Tur specifically. Sithicus and Falkovnia are from Dragonlance. Lamordia seems to be from an Earth-like world given it has the same months we do. Even Eberron creator Keith Baker has a Domain in Ravenloft from his world. 

But there are two notable exceptions. 

  1. First, there are no core domains from Mystara. 
  2. Secondly, the black heart of the Core Domains, Barovia, does not have a "home world."

Why? Because Barovia is from Mystara!

The Mystara-Ravenloft Connection

Now, please keep this in mind. None of this is supported by real-world evidence at all. There was no secret cabal of ur-Developers at TSR deciding this was true and leaving breadcrumbs for me to find. This is less than circumstantial evidence. This is full-on Conspiracy Theory, tin foil hat territory. No, this makes conspiracy theories look like rational arguments. This is conclusion shopping at its lowest.

But at least it makes more sense than some conspiracy theories. So adjust your tin foil hat, make sure your webcams are turned off, and your phone is nowhere near because we are going down a rabbit hole.

Evidence From the Novels

The Ravenloft novels...were a wild bunch. But we can at least assume they were canon. In the first one, "Vampire of the Mists," Strahd does not know about Faerûn when he meets Jander Sunstar. Jander also does not know about Barovia.  Likewise, in "Knight of the Black Rose," Strahd has never heard of Krynn or Lord Soth, not something that would been true for someone of Strahd's age and position. Everyone knew about Lord Soth. The best evidence comes from "I, Strahd: The Memoirs of a Vampire," where Strahd describes his lands and also mentions he has never heard of Azalin (Azalin Rex) or Oerth. 

These are all strikes against Oerth, Krynn, and Abeir-Toril.

Most of the novels in the Ravenloft line are self-contained, so no mention either way of what worlds they might be from originally. 

Evidence from the Campaign Worlds

Going the other direction, we know that the Gods of Krynn keep a pretty tight hold on their world. So much so that Spelljamming and Outer Plane travel to and from Krynn is very difficult. One more strike against Krynn.

The Forgotten Realms have nearly ever square inch of their world map accounted for. If it had been the Realms, we would have heard about it by now. One more strike against Abeir-Toril. OR at least the Toril part, "Forgotten Abeir" might be a different story.

Dark Sun's Athas is a desert wasteland filled with Psionic-enhanced creatures. So there is no way it is from there.

The World of Greyhawk's Oerth has a LOT of land that is unaccounted for. So, we need to find a way to rule it out based on the campaign setting.

Eberon was not created yet, so that one is out as well. 

None of this tells us where Barovia and Strahd are from. It just tells us where they are not from.

So, what does Mystara have to offer us? Well, a lot really.

Mystara

While Tracy Hickman is best known for Dragonlance, that is also one-half Margaret Weiss. So, I am not ready to say Ravenloft is from Krynn based on the Hickman connection alone. But there is another Hickman publication, and it is from Tracy AND Laura Hickman, just like Ravenloft. That is Rahasia.

Rahasia was written by the Hickmans and features body-snatching undead witches, a strong horror trope. Even in the 5e era, The Curse of Strahd adventure, lists Rahasia as an influence. Plus, there are some other solid connections, like finding the same wines in Rahasia's Wizard Tower and in Ravenloft Curse of Strahd. Rahasia is a solid Mystara, or at least a BECMI adventure.

There is also Castle Amber. This Expert Set adventure is explicitly Mystara with the inclusion of Glantri. It also reads like a "Proto-Ravenloft."  I have discussed the Castle Amber/Ravenloft connections before. 

Averoigne was later added to Glantri and the Amber family is said to have come from Old Earth. In many ways the Earth of the Ambers is very, very similar to the Earth of Ravenloft's Gothic Earth.

So, another set of near-evidence is connecting Ravenloft to Mystara. What else do we have?

The vampires of Mystara are more diverse than vampires of other game worlds. This collection of Vampiric Bloodlines at the Vaults of Pandius attests to that.

Immortals vs. The Dark Powers

Mystara and Ravenloft are both settings largely devoid of gods. There are the Immortals of Mystara that cover the same role as gods, but are explicitly not gods. Ravenloft has its Dark Powers which are also not gods. In fact, there is even some evidence that gods worshiped in Ravenloft might only be reflections of the Dark Powers. This all runs pretty counter to most D&D worlds, especially Krynn and Abeir-Toril where the gods are important and very active in the affairs of mortals.

Could the Dark Powers be Chaotic Immortals? I think that is a question best left un-answered, but it has, to quote Stephen Colbert, a bit of Truthiness to it.

Another factor. Both the Immortals and the Dark Powers have a history of scooping up land, countries, even entire civilizations and hiding them away. The Immortals do this with the Hollow World, and the Dark Powers do it with the lands of Ravenloft.

Barovia could have been scoped up and planted elsewhere, and both the Dark Powers and Immortals could have covered it up.  Which does lead into my next point.

Lands

Mystara is a strange patchwork of cultures and lands. Vikings live right next to a Khanate, and on the other side of these steppes is fantasy Wales with bits of Renaissance Italy. These lands only make sense when you realize the Immortals have a hand in moving people around.

Same is true for Ravenloft. Only here, there is less movement. 

Barovia is also small, only 24 miles East-West and about 10 miles North-South. This makes it smaller that an average hex on many Mystara maps. A place like could come from anywhere. More to the point it could go missing from anywhere.

Like Mystara, Ravenloft is a hodge-podge of lands and cultures. 

Time Lines

Additionally, I can use some dates from the novels to narrow some ideas down. Now, a note about time. Time seems to run differently in Ravenloft, so I can't put an exact formula for it. There isn't one. I just have to try to deal with it. The only hard and fast rule I will adhere to is that there is no travel to the past.

WORKING: Timeline

This timeline is a work in progress with changes being made all the time. 

I will add and move details around as I discover them. I am using the Forgotten Realms DR calendar here since many worlds have had interactions with the Realms so it helps with the dating. Any date in Red is a fixed date, one I have confirmation of.  I have squared all the dates yet. Part of the issue is that Mystara's year is different from the other worlds.  Some of the dates do not line up right yet, I am working on those.

This shorter timeline is based on these works: 

I still have a lot of work to do on these and some funky math to make them work. This is, of course, assuming that time passes the same way in all the realms, and I am not making that assumption.  I could hand wave and say "it fits" but I at least would like to find a large enough whole for Barovia in Mystara to fit.

The Art

This one is a little more interesting in my mind.

Both the early Mystara Gazetteer line and the Ravenloft line share the same artists. Now this is not a huge surprise. There were a lot of books being pumped out by TSR in the AD&D 2nd Ed days and only a few artists. But they typically were used on various projects in various combinations.

Both Mystara and Ravenloft shared the same cover artist, Clyde Caldwell, and the same interior artist, Stephen Fabian. And some of the parallels are striking.

Count Strahd and Prince Voszlany
Count Strahd (Ravenloft) and Prince Voszlany (Glantri)

Victor Mordenheim and Rafiel
Victor Mordenheim (Ravenloft) and Rafiel (Mystara - Shadow Elves)

Count Strahd and Prince Voszlany look like they are related, and Victor Mordenheim and Rafiel look like they went to University together.

The Caldwell covers are fairly part-and-parcel with the look of Ravenloft from the start. So seeing all the books side by side they do "feel" right together.

CLyde Caldwell covers

Likewise the Stephen Fabian interior art has a dark spookiness to it and his style is so unique that when I picked up a 1990 copy of Anita and saw his art I knew it right away.

Maybe I need to make a witch, named Anita, (or Anita Tina, I always wanted a character with a palindrome name) from Mystara, Glantri in particular, who gets stuck in Ravenloft. I like this.

--

Of course, none of this is true. But it feels true, and isn't that better than the truth? At least that is what Leonard Nimoy, the Patron Saint of "In Search Of," has to say.

 

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Tuesday, September 24, 2024

In Search Of...Bruno's Earth

 Who is Bruno? What is his Earth? Is there a Bruno's Mars? Why am I searching for it? These questions...are not likely to get fully answered, but I will give it a try in this segment of "In Search Of..."

So I found this curiosity on Amazon a while back. Two books, super cheap called "Bruno's Earth Game Book" and "Bruno's Earth Creature Manual."

Bruno's Earth

Here is a quote from the Amazon page.

This is an expansion to the game that fills in the holes and gets rid of the obscure contradictory rules. It is more consitent and more detailed, yet easier to play. The games on the shelves these days are so complex and have so many volumes of rules, a dozen lawyers couldn't sort it out. Bruno's Earth goes back to the beginning and rebuilds from scratch, enhancing all aspects that make the game fun to play and fizes all the problems that made it hard to play. Bruno's Earth is a trim, detailed, cohesive game system that is fun to play and easy to learn.

I mean, this is no different than hundreds of forgotten Fantasy Heartbreakers out there. What makes this one special, or more to point, notorious? 

Here are some bold claims on the back covers.

Bruno's Earth

The author is listed as "Jim Patrick Guyer."  Now there is Jim Patrick Guyer, who is an author and invented a game called Diamond Chess (old, inactive URL: http://diamondchess.net/) who passed away in 2021. I can't confim that this is the one and only Jim Patrick Guyer. Goodreads seems to think so, but that does not mean a lot.  He does have a hotmail email address, so that at least gives some evidence this is old. 

BrunosEarth.com listed in the Game Book was first indexed back in 2011. A coming soon page was up for a while, then it went blank.

thread on ENWorld claims that it is from 1986. An ISBN search for Bruno's Earth Game Book does list Jan 14, 1986, as the publication date. This is likely for the 10-digit ISBN and not the newer 13-digit one.

An ISBN search for Bruno's Earth Creature Manual says it was registered in 2012. I am not sure why there is a 26-year gap when the books are obviously contemporaneous. Though that could just be in their current forms/format. Further searches only bring up the Amazon pages.

In truth, outside of the ISBN registration, I can't see much else for these books. 

There are no threads on RPG.net for it. Same with Dragonsfoot

I tried searching the Usenet, but all the search engines I used to use are behind paywalls now.

That is just the foundational searching. What about the books themselves?

Bruno's Earth

These books are the pretense of a game. Despite the author's claim these are not what AD&D Second Ed should have been. Not even close.

The game book is 136 pages, and the monster book is 92 pages.

Bruno's Earth Game Book

Ok, I really have no idea what this is about. 10 pages for a Table of Contents (that's about 8% of the whole book). I am not sure what bugs me more. The only original art (that I can tell) is bad, the ComicSans font, or the text on the page. 

What do I mean? Well out of the gate one of our player races is an Albino. Yikes. We also get Hobbits. So lets just get everyone to sue us all at once. 

Of note, the art here includes some gray-scale, descaled versions of D&D 3rd Edition art.  

Characters have 8 Ability scores, the normal 6 plus Memory and Comeliness, and are generated using 3d6, 3d20, and 4d24.  How?? Don't ask me.

I could go on, but reading the rules are giving me a headache. That or the ComicSans font.  I was hoping there were some ideas here I could mine, but no. Not really.

Brunos's Earth Creature Manual

Again, I do love monster books. But this one is testing my patience. 

The monsters are divided up into broad categories (Natural, Super-Natural, Elemental, Undead), then alphabetically. These are largely copied from the AD&D 1st Monster Manual, with some from theFiend Folio and Monster Manual II.  There are no demons or devils.

There are some new monsters. Skrags, a type of undead, some new dragons. There is one, an Orinthopter. It is listed with the Golems under Elementals. The image looks like a crudely drawn glider or kite. There needs to be a description on what this is supposed to be. Is it a construct? An object? It has a Wisdom score, so is it alive?

Look, I could keep on going, but I won't. The author is not around anymore and there is no need for me to be a dick here.

I am not sure how this thing got onto my radar but I have it and no idea what to do with it.

As I said before, it is notable due to its mystery, availability on Amazon, and the author. There might be a story here, but I need help to dig up. I have been researching this since December 2023 and working on this post since June 2024.

In this case, my deep dive gives us nothing.