tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7913319789564397699.post1438261818209417650..comments2024-03-28T08:17:07.009-05:00Comments on The Other Side blog: Class Struggles: The Invoker (4e)Timothy S. Brannanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02923526503305233715noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7913319789564397699.post-19240007186743902762015-10-01T08:12:19.573-05:002015-10-01T08:12:19.573-05:00@ S'mon:
Isn't that kinda' the paladi...@ S'mon:<br /><br />Isn't that kinda' the paladin's shtick?JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7913319789564397699.post-23579154766294362892015-10-01T02:23:03.958-05:002015-10-01T02:23:03.958-05:00You don't add (half) level to damage in 4e, yo...You don't add (half) level to damage in 4e, you only add it to d20 checks. So "d10+WIS" means d10 + your WIS attribute modifier only.<br /><br />Invokers seem to me to fit in as the servants of Law in a Law vs Chaos cosmology; the astral powers of 4e ('gods') representing cosmic Law vs the cosmic Chaos of the Primordials.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7913319789564397699.post-61521356757325147292015-09-30T22:20:20.503-05:002015-09-30T22:20:20.503-05:00Hmm...let's put it this way.
I've played ...Hmm...let's put it this way.<br /><br />I've played a bit of World of Warcraft, though it's been a while, and I know they do updates and whatnot that change game play. However, the last time I checked, each WoW class had three different "talent trees" giving three different "optimal builds" (think of them as play styles) that give players a way to further distinguish themselves from others of their class (in addition to race and gear). I find that many of the 4E "builds" ape these talent trees; however, if you notice, each 4E class has only two builds (unlike WoW's three). Where does the extra tree go? Into a different class. <br /><br />For example, WoW's warrior class has the sword-and-board tree, the great weapon tree, and the dual-wield tree. 4E's fighter class has a sword-and-board build and a great weapon build...but "dual wielding" goes into the ranger class. The analogous WoW class to the ranger is the hunter, which has a marksman build, a pet build, and a trap build. 4E keeps only the marksman (to go along with the Drzzt dual-wield), "pets" go to the new shaman class, and traps are rolled in somewhere else.<br /><br />4E isn't completely analogous to WoW, of course...I'm talking about concepts. The WoW classes give you a smaller list of classes (eleven, I believe) with more "builds per class." 4E gives you more classes (16 between the two PHBs), but less builds overall (32 to 33). Even though it's not 100% duplicated, you can see how an invoker (for example) just takes pieces left on the cutting room floor from paladin and cleric. It doesn't feel very original to me. What's the difference between an invoker and a cleric? Not much: fewer hit points, less healing, more blasting.<br /><br />But that's actually a minor quibble. A bigger quibble is that, considering D&D's "lack of specific setting," there is a ton of very specific setting implied by the invoker class...enough that it feels like the class contradicts some of the internal consistency of the implied setting found in early core books (specifically with regard to the way gods interact with mortals). An even bigger quibble, though, is the profound lack of in-game accountability the invoker's powers bring with it. Things like the summon angel spells...angels just appear and start fucking shit up? Without any real theological consequence or so much as a "how do you do?" I mean, that's some serious magic (and are there "evil angels" for evil invokers? I guess so)...but all it results in is big handfuls of dice rolled to see how much damage you apply. What a waste.<br /><br />And, yes, I realize there's a lot of wasted opportunity in 4E. The text talks a good game about amazing fantasy like flying castles and whatnot...but are there rules for making a flying castle of your own? The invoker is one of those classes (for me) that just illustrates what 4E is all about...which I find distasteful, personally.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7913319789564397699.post-3792706469448500662015-09-30T12:06:26.620-05:002015-09-30T12:06:26.620-05:00I remember the invoker appearing as a high damage ...I remember the invoker appearing as a high damage "DPR" type class....a lot of firepower, sort of intended to be the sorcerer analog to the cleric. At least one of my players enjoyed running an invoker to level 16ish.Doctor Futurityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02586371999646337047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7913319789564397699.post-18601119000519596942015-09-30T11:50:35.573-05:002015-09-30T11:50:35.573-05:00Go negative! I am very curious about what you hav...Go negative! I am very curious about what you have to say.Timothy S. Brannanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02923526503305233715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7913319789564397699.post-43974834083161853132015-09-30T11:40:54.360-05:002015-09-30T11:40:54.360-05:00*sigh*
I was going to say that I don't like t...*sigh*<br /><br />I was going to say that I don't like the invoker very much. Just trying to consider if there's a way to do so in a constructive (non-negative) fashion.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.com